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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4571490" data-attributes="member: 2067">I think you're slightly misinterpreting my posts. I was probably not as clear as I maybe should have been.4e's roles have a strong minis/tactical movement/positioning quality to them. This is good for 4e, because 4e loves it some minis skirmishes, and, like anything that the game considers important, it should have a lot of detail.4e Roles, in part, define how, under what conditions, and with what effects, you move your piece of plastic, or others' pieces of plastic.This is a "strong tactical movement quality."It's not pure, that's not ALL the roles are about, but it is pronounced, the roles DO have this angle. As an example, a "defender" in 4e is more than just a class with a high AC, or a class with a marking ability. It is also, in part, a class that limits the movement of enemies, after engaging it in melee. That is a pronounced angle for minis combat to the role. The defender does other stuff, too. But it has that angle. Every role has that angle. It is a big part of how they do their jobs. It's not the only part, but it's an important part, and it's not a part that can be easily overlooked (except by some Leaders, maybe). That's part of why I don't see these as pure combat roles. The "actual" combat roles don't have anything to do with movement, because movement isn't a part of what combat is when you boil it down to its defining feature (a game of who gets to 0 first). That's why I think the 4e roles are useful for 4e, and a great shorthand, but also why I resist the idea that "defenders have always existed!"Not really. Not in the same way that 4e uses the concept. A 1e fighter is not a Defender because he has high AC. 4e's use is more specific than that.</blockquote>

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