Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I like the new Warlock
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9006342" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Because Pact Magic doesn't have anything like the book keeping involved. If I'm playing a warlock I know six spells at level five, all of which can be cast at third level and therefore are all influential. If I'm playing a sorcerer I either know seven split across three levels, leaving me feeling very cramped or I know thirteen if I'm an Aberrant Mind or Clockwork Soul. I'm also tracking three separate pools of magic. I therefore get roughly three quarters of the highlights of the sorcerer for less than half the effort.</p><p></p><p>Sure ... if you ignore invocations. Meanwhile the Warlock should be either getting shenanigans or awesomeness from e.g. being able to change their appearance every round if they choose to. Invocations can be very fun.</p><p></p><p>I don't think there is a single person who disagrees. Hexblade was added to make the pact of the blade playable - and doing that rather than actually fixing the pact boon has lead to a lot of the multiclassing issues. No one thinks that the 2014 Pact Blade is good - and everyone was expecting that WotC would finally fix the thing in 2022 when they should have done it in about 2015. This isn't however bad <em>fundamental</em> design but bad <em>execution.</em> There's nothing wrong with the idea of a pact blade - but it should use your casting stat and shouldn't be very thirsty for invocations. Two things that have been fixed in the OneD&D version (although it's still sitting there begging for a paladin or even melee cleric to take a one level dip).</p><p></p><p>What do you need the second invocation for? Like I say <em>Invocations are the source of the warlock's non high level spell shenanigans. </em>Agonizing Blast is basically a tax. And invocations are really valuable.</p><p></p><p>The spells are to be deployed when they are gamechangers. I see no problem with that when the utility abilities are covered by invocations.</p><p></p><p>Not true in the Paladin's case. The paladin works and gets their big booms because they can simultaneously add their spell to their melee by smiting. Half casters use their spells for utility, while the warlock uses invocations for utility.</p><p></p><p>Yours may. Mine all use their spells for utility. Especially Goodberry and Pass Without Trace. (Oh, and Hunter's Mark)</p><p></p><p>No it isn't! Shield is boring and frustrating! It no-sells! Not forcing the Warlock into being yet another shield spammer is a good thing!</p><p></p><p>What the warlock <em>should</em> be able to use for resilience is either False Life or Mage Armour as invocations. Unfortunately casting Mage Armour is a waste of a slot, never mind an invocation, for someone in light armour and as for the False Life invocation <em>it doesn't scale</em>. 5hp is great at level 1 but very weak at level 10.</p><p></p><p>I have literally been praising the warlock for <em>years</em> for <em>not</em> messing around with low level spell slots. Meanwhile the new warlock is forced to have the very thing I praised it for not having.</p><p></p><p>"I'll have the chicken salad"</p><p>"Here's the kilo of barbqueue wings"</p><p>"I don't want this. It's pure fatty meat with fat and I ordered the light salad with chicken breast"</p><p>"You can't know you don't like it if you haven't tried it! And see! It contains chicken!"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9006342, member: 87792"] Because Pact Magic doesn't have anything like the book keeping involved. If I'm playing a warlock I know six spells at level five, all of which can be cast at third level and therefore are all influential. If I'm playing a sorcerer I either know seven split across three levels, leaving me feeling very cramped or I know thirteen if I'm an Aberrant Mind or Clockwork Soul. I'm also tracking three separate pools of magic. I therefore get roughly three quarters of the highlights of the sorcerer for less than half the effort. Sure ... if you ignore invocations. Meanwhile the Warlock should be either getting shenanigans or awesomeness from e.g. being able to change their appearance every round if they choose to. Invocations can be very fun. I don't think there is a single person who disagrees. Hexblade was added to make the pact of the blade playable - and doing that rather than actually fixing the pact boon has lead to a lot of the multiclassing issues. No one thinks that the 2014 Pact Blade is good - and everyone was expecting that WotC would finally fix the thing in 2022 when they should have done it in about 2015. This isn't however bad [I]fundamental[/I] design but bad [I]execution.[/I] There's nothing wrong with the idea of a pact blade - but it should use your casting stat and shouldn't be very thirsty for invocations. Two things that have been fixed in the OneD&D version (although it's still sitting there begging for a paladin or even melee cleric to take a one level dip). What do you need the second invocation for? Like I say [I]Invocations are the source of the warlock's non high level spell shenanigans. [/I]Agonizing Blast is basically a tax. And invocations are really valuable. The spells are to be deployed when they are gamechangers. I see no problem with that when the utility abilities are covered by invocations. Not true in the Paladin's case. The paladin works and gets their big booms because they can simultaneously add their spell to their melee by smiting. Half casters use their spells for utility, while the warlock uses invocations for utility. Yours may. Mine all use their spells for utility. Especially Goodberry and Pass Without Trace. (Oh, and Hunter's Mark) No it isn't! Shield is boring and frustrating! It no-sells! Not forcing the Warlock into being yet another shield spammer is a good thing! What the warlock [I]should[/I] be able to use for resilience is either False Life or Mage Armour as invocations. Unfortunately casting Mage Armour is a waste of a slot, never mind an invocation, for someone in light armour and as for the False Life invocation [I]it doesn't scale[/I]. 5hp is great at level 1 but very weak at level 10. I have literally been praising the warlock for [I]years[/I] for [I]not[/I] messing around with low level spell slots. Meanwhile the new warlock is forced to have the very thing I praised it for not having. "I'll have the chicken salad" "Here's the kilo of barbqueue wings" "I don't want this. It's pure fatty meat with fat and I ordered the light salad with chicken breast" "You can't know you don't like it if you haven't tried it! And see! It contains chicken!" [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I like the new Warlock
Top