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<blockquote data-quote="Mark CMG" data-source="post: 5950187" data-attributes="member: 10479">Obviously I don't agree but I won't just repeat myself beyond that.&nbsp; You must be used to games where combats take a long time and a few seconds seems like forever.&nbsp; Really, what I am envisioning in this scenario is a combat that lasts about five minutes or less with low level characters and an equal number of low level opponents.&nbsp; Even in higher level play, we're not looking at more than fifteen or twenty minutes for the bigger combats in any given session.There is no &quot;otherwise&quot; so there's nothing to compare it to, no set number.&nbsp; We're talking about what it would take to grab onto someone who has their own Dex score and the ability to react.&nbsp; There's no fixed number for that.A lock is in most cases a static object with no will of its own and no intention to react, so we'll set that example aside.&nbsp; Now you're suggesting extremes and while I agree that someone with an 18 Str might be able to out-muscle someone with a much lower Str in most cases, we were talking Dex scores regarding one person grabbing another in an attempt to discontinue sliding.&nbsp; Really, let's just leave this one aside too.&nbsp; I suppose I could give you my gut-check adjudication for each extreme case you suggest as a litmus test for judging the one I suggested upthread but you need to understand that in a game that doesn't rely on set rules for each and every situation, what you are doing is the antithesis of that design.&nbsp; You will probably be more comfortable with a ruleset that tells you how to make all DMing calls and it is likely that a 5E with most of the modules will be that game for you.&nbsp; I think they plan to make the entire game more flexible, though, so that someone else won't have to do the same and won't need all of the players to be on board with that far end of the range of games 5E is being designed to handle.That's a separate issue beyond design and gets into player expectations and management.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mark CMG, post: 5950187, member: 10479"] Obviously I don't agree but I won't just repeat myself beyond that. You must be used to games where combats take a long time and a few seconds seems like forever. Really, what I am envisioning in this scenario is a combat that lasts about five minutes or less with low level characters and an equal number of low level opponents. Even in higher level play, we're not looking at more than fifteen or twenty minutes for the bigger combats in any given session. There is no "otherwise" so there's nothing to compare it to, no set number. We're talking about what it would take to grab onto someone who has their own Dex score and the ability to react. There's no fixed number for that. A lock is in most cases a static object with no will of its own and no intention to react, so we'll set that example aside. Now you're suggesting extremes and while I agree that someone with an 18 Str might be able to out-muscle someone with a much lower Str in most cases, we were talking Dex scores regarding one person grabbing another in an attempt to discontinue sliding. Really, let's just leave this one aside too. I suppose I could give you my gut-check adjudication for each extreme case you suggest as a litmus test for judging the one I suggested upthread but you need to understand that in a game that doesn't rely on set rules for each and every situation, what you are doing is the antithesis of that design. You will probably be more comfortable with a ruleset that tells you how to make all DMing calls and it is likely that a 5E with most of the modules will be that game for you. I think they plan to make the entire game more flexible, though, so that someone else won't have to do the same and won't need all of the players to be on board with that far end of the range of games 5E is being designed to handle. That's a separate issue beyond design and gets into player expectations and management. [/QUOTE]

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