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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 5950827" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>As I see it there are two basic issues that come up when have simple fighters slotted alongside of spell casting characters with discrete mechanically defined abilities -</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Anytime you give the ability to choose between discrete options you are allowing players to differentiate themselves on the basis of smart mechanical play. What's the balance point for simple fighters vs. complex casters? Is it average caster play? Is it optimal caster play? If a simple fighter performs as well as a caster played optimally than the players of casters feel as if their judicious use of resources was for naught. They don't feel rewarded for the effort they put it. If you balance on average ability to play the game smart players will inevitably drift towards playing casters and end up having a stronger impact on the events of the game assuming they care to have an impact on the game. You can't balance classes based on the results of play that exists outside the rules of the game because it's freely available to everyone unless you say something along the lines of 'Only fighters can stunt. If Clerics try something outside the bounds of the rules they automatically fail'. I'm sure that would go over well.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Caster types have too much breadth. The ability to be effective in both the tactical and operational arenas means that martial types can only shine when casters are played poorly or the DM specifically invalidates casters through spell resistance, anti-magic fields, extremely strong saves, etc. If fighters lack tools to meaningfully exert dramatic change on the operational level than wizards should have to say "go get 'em" to fighters when combat breaks out. Admittedly this is better in AD&D where spell slots are far more limited than 3e/PF. Still it leaves the feeling that fighters are only there for when casters don't feel like being awesome. This applies just as much to thieves/rogues in the operational environment.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>

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