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D&D Older Editions
I love 5E, but lately I miss 4E's monsters
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7015337" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>To be fair, the 5e fighter only ever gets two such abilities, and their fairly different in concept, one being offensive the other recover, even if both are 'pushing himself' or using deep reserves or whatever just like the description of martial encounters and dailies in 4e. The idea that there are two, distinct, reserves of different nature is isn't pushing it as far as 3 distinct encounter reserves, and 3 distinct daily reserves - that stemming from the general 4e design rule of thumb of each power being usable only once, that is not being able to swap uses of one encounter for another, like spontaneous slots or something.</p><p></p><p>I don't think it's the wording...</p><p></p><p> Having fewer spells than before is quite the understatement: topping out at 4 comparatively balanced dailies versus dozens of wildly overpowered ones is a profound drop in power, even if it isn't a vast conceptual change (Wizard dailies remained Vancian in concept, for instance - arguably more so than they are in 5e). But, yes, the conceptual change to non-casters in gaining encounters and dailies, and the increased versatility and power that entailed, was more significant. Both were just a matter of bringing the classes into closer balance than they'd been in the past.</p><p></p><p>Spell cards existed before 4e, too. So, for that matter did the idea of casting a spell 'directly out of a book' outside of combat which is kinda close to ritual casting. Kinda. But, yes 5e retained at-wills for casters and rituals, while scrapping dailies for non casters. The game giveth, the game taketh away. ;P</p><p></p><p>The edition war discussions crawled deep into such rabbit holes. I'm glad 5e isn't getting the same treatment. But bringing up 4e in a thread like this was probably a mistake in the first place. (sorry, OP)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7015337, member: 996"] To be fair, the 5e fighter only ever gets two such abilities, and their fairly different in concept, one being offensive the other recover, even if both are 'pushing himself' or using deep reserves or whatever just like the description of martial encounters and dailies in 4e. The idea that there are two, distinct, reserves of different nature is isn't pushing it as far as 3 distinct encounter reserves, and 3 distinct daily reserves - that stemming from the general 4e design rule of thumb of each power being usable only once, that is not being able to swap uses of one encounter for another, like spontaneous slots or something. I don't think it's the wording... Having fewer spells than before is quite the understatement: topping out at 4 comparatively balanced dailies versus dozens of wildly overpowered ones is a profound drop in power, even if it isn't a vast conceptual change (Wizard dailies remained Vancian in concept, for instance - arguably more so than they are in 5e). But, yes, the conceptual change to non-casters in gaining encounters and dailies, and the increased versatility and power that entailed, was more significant. Both were just a matter of bringing the classes into closer balance than they'd been in the past. Spell cards existed before 4e, too. So, for that matter did the idea of casting a spell 'directly out of a book' outside of combat which is kinda close to ritual casting. Kinda. But, yes 5e retained at-wills for casters and rituals, while scrapping dailies for non casters. The game giveth, the game taketh away. ;P The edition war discussions crawled deep into such rabbit holes. I'm glad 5e isn't getting the same treatment. But bringing up 4e in a thread like this was probably a mistake in the first place. (sorry, OP) [/QUOTE]
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