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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 6367951" data-attributes="member: 1210">Yeah, but that's a "screw the 4e guys" approach that won't serve 5e's goals. IMHO, it's far better to let everyone have their cake rather than giving a little extra bite to 'classic' players. Besides, succubi as in-between-fiends work fine in any encounter I can recall seeing them in. If they work fine in all the old adventures- especially if you consider that they probably tell devils that succubi are devils, and tell demons that succubi are demons- then who is losing out? If everyone can use the monster as they have been and all that changes is a label, I think it's a win. Wouldn't this be exactly the compromise that they settled on? And either staying demon or staying devil would create the issues you describe for someone, while the compromise seems designed to allow all your campaign's old stories to remain in place without disturbance.You say that "It was a great opportunity to ease the continuity issues caused by bizarrely making them suddenly devils in 4e", but it sounds like, rather than easing the continuity issues for everyone, you wanted to completely appease early-edition succubi-as-demon issues while ignoring those of 4e players and dms. I think it's easy to get around continuity issues, and feel that returning to succubi-as-demons would rather sweep them under the rug at the expense of succubi-as-devil groups (and vice-versa). The compromise position gives an easy, obvious solution to both groups. Isn't that better than telling one group that their stuff was just wrong, and screw the integrity of their campaigns? The way I see it, the compromise preserves stories from both sides- maybe that Lolth-following succubus wasn't a demon, but who cares? It was still a succubus filling a role in Lolth's list of servants, much like Drow or an evil ogre shaman of Lolth would be. I don't know that the compromise makes it hard to fit succubi into the demon role or the devil role, but leaving them one or the other certainly does make it harder to fit them into the opposite fiend role. Moreover, I don't have the 5e MM yet, but I doubt very much whether any of the new lore will stop you from running a succubus as a demon if you want, or stop a Nerath DM from continuing to use them as devils.</blockquote>

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