Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8718782" data-attributes="member: 4937">This is a variation on an old debate that I have had many times at EnWorld.&quot;I search the room&quot; in whatever form that proposition occurs is one of the most useful shorthands and simultaneously one of the most problematic propositions that a player can make.&nbsp; Consider the situation of the crime boss who has three paintings in his office.&nbsp; Behind one is the safe containing his valuables, and behind two others is an engraved symbol of death.&nbsp;&nbsp; What happens in this room after you've been validating &quot;I search the room&quot; as a GM and the player offers it?That said, I think this particular case is less problematic because if I had to guess Perception checks are not short hand for an active proposition but something that occurs passively.&nbsp; And passive checks are IMO not the province of the player anyway, but something managed by the DM.&nbsp; A player never has to tell me specifically that they are listening or seeing or smelling the environment in a passive way.&nbsp; They may need to tell me that if they are focusing on a particular aspect of the environment like, &quot;I motion everyone to silence while I put my ear to the door and listen&quot; or &quot;I visually inspect the stone sarcophagus&quot; or &quot;I unstopper the bottle and carefully sniff the contents, taking care to not touch or spill anything.&quot;&nbsp; But in general, no one has to walk into the room and say, &quot;I try to see things.&quot; and telling me &quot;I'm trying to see things.&quot; doesn't change the situation.&nbsp; I assume of course they are trying to see things.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8718782, member: 4937"] This is a variation on an old debate that I have had many times at EnWorld. "I search the room" in whatever form that proposition occurs is one of the most useful shorthands and simultaneously one of the most problematic propositions that a player can make. Consider the situation of the crime boss who has three paintings in his office. Behind one is the safe containing his valuables, and behind two others is an engraved symbol of death. What happens in this room after you've been validating "I search the room" as a GM and the player offers it? That said, I think this particular case is less problematic because if I had to guess Perception checks are not short hand for an active proposition but something that occurs passively. And passive checks are IMO not the province of the player anyway, but something managed by the DM. A player never has to tell me specifically that they are listening or seeing or smelling the environment in a passive way. They may need to tell me that if they are focusing on a particular aspect of the environment like, "I motion everyone to silence while I put my ear to the door and listen" or "I visually inspect the stone sarcophagus" or "I unstopper the bottle and carefully sniff the contents, taking care to not touch or spill anything." But in general, no one has to walk into the room and say, "I try to see things." and telling me "I'm trying to see things." doesn't change the situation. I assume of course they are trying to see things. [/QUOTE]

Verification