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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 8718854" data-attributes="member: 7026594">Let's go back for a minute to the example of the paladin and the rogue who want to hide when the ogre is about to enter the room.Depending on how and where the characters hide, a roll may or may not be necessary, and there will be different risks and benefits.If the paladin (heavy armor, disadvantage, low dex) tries to hide somewhere that needs a roll, he's going to have bad odds. The opposite for the rogue.  Character skill matters.However certain player-declared actions may obviate the need for a roll.  If either player declares that their character is going to hide in the closet and close the door, being completely out of LOS, they probably won't need a Stealth check at all.  That's good!  OTOH, if they want to observe what the ogre does in the room, they've got no chance.  Downside. If they want to listen to what the ogre's doing, maybe they can learn something, but again, that door's going to be in the way obstructing the effort.The rogue, with their good check, may want to instead stay in the room.  Hide under the table or behind the cloak rack or someplace.  Where they have to make a roll, but they're right there easily able to spy on the ogre, and more easily jump out and make a surprise attack if they want to.If the player is not clear on what furniture is there, where their character could possibly hide, etc., then certainly the DM should be free with that info.  The player can make an informed decision, and the DM can then adjudicate the situation easily, reveal any dangers without the player feeling like there was a "gotcha" or they were forced to harm themselves (maybe it turns out that there's a venomous snake in the closet!), and call for any rolls needed.Edit: Maybe if [USER=67338]@GMforPowergamers[/USER] is tired, or a brand new player and doesn't understand their options, they flat out ask me "Where can I potentially hide?" and I tell them "There's a table you could fit under, a cloak rack in the corner, a closet with a door you can close, and a shadowy corner that's in deep gloom from the lantern on the table, the only source of light in the room."  Then they can tell me which of those four options they want.  The table and cloak rack require checks. Same with the shadowy corner, but if the ogre moves into that half of the room, they automatically see the character there with darkvision, because there's nothing to actually hide behind.  I may know this ahead of time, but I'm going to feel pretty awkward if I told the player their character hid in the corner, rather than letting them pick their poison.</blockquote>

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