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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8719575" data-attributes="member: 6801228">OKay, but let me give you a counter example here. You have finished describing an idol. The cleric, who was an acolyte in their backstory, holds up the die and asks "Religion?" Do you really need them to say "I want to think back to my training as an acolyte of the Sun Lord to see if I have heard anything about this idol before."? I mean... it is very obvious they are asking about the idol, and that they are asking if they have run across it in their studies, whether as an acolyte or later. Because the Religion skill proficiency doesn't actually require or state anything about HOW they gained the proficiency. Did they study religious texts? Were they trained by a bard? Did they just grow up and speak to a bunch of old priests? The skill itself doesn't require anything about how you got it, so why am I required to specify why I might know something about something I've never seen before.But why? Knowledge and perception and insight are completely passive. And by that I mean, I don't make "knowledge" checks in real life by doing any specific action. I just know what I know. If I need to do an action, like pulling out a book or searching my phone, then I'm doing research. And generally, if I have access to research materials, the DM calls for an investigation check to go through them, not a knowledge check. I don't walk into a room and perceive things by taking any specific action. In fact, most of the actions I've seen laid out for "perception" are either altering the environment (throwing in a torch to illuminate the room) or are investigation. Neither of which is meant by a perception check. If I'm listening to someone talk, I don't reach out and grab their face to see if they are lying, or write down their words and reread them to see if they are lying, I'm already doing the pertinent action. Listening and looking.By doing what? What action can they possibly take if you have clued them off by saying the NPC is "unusually sweaty" or something. You've either given them enough clues they are just looking to confirm via insight, or they are looking for insight to give them the truth. But most players want to roll to find out if they missed any clues that the person was lying. And it is really hard to look at me acting like the NPC and determine if they are lying, because of course I'm lying, I'm trying to act and I'm a bad actor.</blockquote>

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