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"I make a perception check."
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8720248" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Because this level of specificity always seems to come with a dose of "They didn't do the right thing, therefore trap" </p><p></p><p>Notice, by the way, that [USER=467]@Reynard[/USER] mocked me in their response instead of answering the question of why a player moving to the center of the room and asking to roll perception cannot roll perception to discover the trap before they trigger it. This seems like a legitimate question to me. They have taken an action, declared an intent, but because that action happens to have been a trigger for a trap, their intent is ignored and they get hit by the trap, no save, no check, nothing. To the player, the answer is obvious, they shouldn't have moved. Moving was a mistake. But then the next room they attempt not to move, and they get told they must move and take an action, or they don't get to make the roll.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which all feels like it is saying there is no action that allows for perception. You just have to guess and hope your "mistakes" don't lead to traps and hidden creatures. </p><p></p><p>Now, lets flip this on its head for a moment. Let's go to my table where a player enters a room, I describe the room, and then the player holds up their dice and says "I want to roll perception". I, as the DM, know that there is a trap hidden in the room, and I let them roll. They roll high enough and I tell them that they spot some details that lead to them determining that there is likely a trap in this spot. Specific details depend, but a pit trap under a rug, maybe they notice the rug sagging in the middle slightly, a detail they would have missed before. </p><p></p><p>The player took due caution, indicating to me that they wished to look more carefully at the room, and therefore made zero mistakes that needed me to harm their character over. And if I describe that, and then the player asks "well what about [blank]" indicating to me that they intended their roll to cover something else that I did not tell them, then I compare the roll to that new information, and let them know what that roll would tell them. </p><p></p><p>Then, once they have more information, they begin either getting more specific, or moving on. But I respect their initial caution, their initial instinct that something could be dangerous and their response to tell me, as the DM, that they want to take extra precautions to avoid that danger. And frankly, half the time I'll tell them something is obviously dangerous, and they will poke it anyways.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8720248, member: 6801228"] Because this level of specificity always seems to come with a dose of "They didn't do the right thing, therefore trap" Notice, by the way, that [USER=467]@Reynard[/USER] mocked me in their response instead of answering the question of why a player moving to the center of the room and asking to roll perception cannot roll perception to discover the trap before they trigger it. This seems like a legitimate question to me. They have taken an action, declared an intent, but because that action happens to have been a trigger for a trap, their intent is ignored and they get hit by the trap, no save, no check, nothing. To the player, the answer is obvious, they shouldn't have moved. Moving was a mistake. But then the next room they attempt not to move, and they get told they must move and take an action, or they don't get to make the roll. Which all feels like it is saying there is no action that allows for perception. You just have to guess and hope your "mistakes" don't lead to traps and hidden creatures. Now, lets flip this on its head for a moment. Let's go to my table where a player enters a room, I describe the room, and then the player holds up their dice and says "I want to roll perception". I, as the DM, know that there is a trap hidden in the room, and I let them roll. They roll high enough and I tell them that they spot some details that lead to them determining that there is likely a trap in this spot. Specific details depend, but a pit trap under a rug, maybe they notice the rug sagging in the middle slightly, a detail they would have missed before. The player took due caution, indicating to me that they wished to look more carefully at the room, and therefore made zero mistakes that needed me to harm their character over. And if I describe that, and then the player asks "well what about [blank]" indicating to me that they intended their roll to cover something else that I did not tell them, then I compare the roll to that new information, and let them know what that roll would tell them. Then, once they have more information, they begin either getting more specific, or moving on. But I respect their initial caution, their initial instinct that something could be dangerous and their response to tell me, as the DM, that they want to take extra precautions to avoid that danger. And frankly, half the time I'll tell them something is obviously dangerous, and they will poke it anyways. [/QUOTE]
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