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"I make a perception check."
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 8721127" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>This appears to boil down to your individual expectations regarding the efficacy of false bottoms in a fantasy setting. Reasonable people can disagree on how effective they are and neither would be wrong. In your setting, they are at least effective enough to potentially fool someone who pokes around at them. In Charlaquin's, not so much.</p><p></p><p>If by some reason the attempt by the character has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure, then the character with the -1 Investigation will tend to do worse than the +13 Investigation. But not all the time due to that fickle d20.</p><p></p><p>In these discussions, it's easy - particularly when this example or that is trotted out to muddle things - to fall into the trap of "how" this works rather than examine "why" it's beneficial. For that I refer to DMG, page 236-237. In games that rely more on the dice than the "Middle Path" describes, "roleplaying can diminish if players feel that their die rolls, rather than their decisions and characterizations, always determine success." As well, "By balancing the use of dice against deciding on success, you can encourage your players to strike a balance between relying on their bonuses and abilities and paying attention to the game and immersing themselves in its world."</p><p></p><p>Based on my experience, I would say the DMG is 100% correct on this part. And despite all the hand-wringing upthread about players being unable or unwilling to do this, I can say at least in the many games I've run with hundreds of players, every single one has risen to the occasion (some faster than others).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 8721127, member: 97077"] This appears to boil down to your individual expectations regarding the efficacy of false bottoms in a fantasy setting. Reasonable people can disagree on how effective they are and neither would be wrong. In your setting, they are at least effective enough to potentially fool someone who pokes around at them. In Charlaquin's, not so much. If by some reason the attempt by the character has an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure, then the character with the -1 Investigation will tend to do worse than the +13 Investigation. But not all the time due to that fickle d20. In these discussions, it's easy - particularly when this example or that is trotted out to muddle things - to fall into the trap of "how" this works rather than examine "why" it's beneficial. For that I refer to DMG, page 236-237. In games that rely more on the dice than the "Middle Path" describes, "roleplaying can diminish if players feel that their die rolls, rather than their decisions and characterizations, always determine success." As well, "By balancing the use of dice against deciding on success, you can encourage your players to strike a balance between relying on their bonuses and abilities and paying attention to the game and immersing themselves in its world." Based on my experience, I would say the DMG is 100% correct on this part. And despite all the hand-wringing upthread about players being unable or unwilling to do this, I can say at least in the many games I've run with hundreds of players, every single one has risen to the occasion (some faster than others). [/QUOTE]
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