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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8721129" data-attributes="member: 67338">never... at least not in 20 years have I said any such thing. I didn't say they can't check (nor would I) I said they may check and not find what is there... aka they get a rollso lets say the -1 character looks and rolls a 2 (so modified to a 1) it doesn't matter how they look they miss it (and with that bad a check they might miss a VERY easy to find latch) However... if the DC was 14 (pretty common number I use for this kind of thing) they CAN still find&nbsp; it on a 15-20. yes we DO cheer... in fact what we found is that by doing it our way it allows for someone without the skill out of game to be better IN THE GAME then the person who is very skilled out of game but has none in game. so the real life stage magician playing a person without his out of game skills not only will cheer but may even give out of game suggestions as to &quot;Oh you would know you can check X Y and Z&quot; then the whole table cheers when the character that should know it uses that and does it...I don't understand why people think us working together and with character over player skill makes it LESS team work... yes... the ONLY bad wrong thing is trying to force others to do things your way.&nbsp;&nbsp; 100% saying &quot;Man I hate my players don't have fun my way&quot; is wrong... it might be the only wrong way to have fun.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 8721129, member: 67338"] never... at least not in 20 years have I said any such thing. I didn't say they can't check (nor would I) I said they may check and not find what is there... aka they get a roll so lets say the -1 character looks and rolls a 2 (so modified to a 1) it doesn't matter how they look they miss it (and with that bad a check they might miss a VERY easy to find latch) However... if the DC was 14 (pretty common number I use for this kind of thing) they CAN still find it on a 15-20. yes we DO cheer... in fact what we found is that by doing it our way it allows for someone without the skill out of game to be better IN THE GAME then the person who is very skilled out of game but has none in game. so the real life stage magician playing a person without his out of game skills not only will cheer but may even give out of game suggestions as to "Oh you would know you can check X Y and Z" then the whole table cheers when the character that should know it uses that and does it... I don't understand why people think us working together and with character over player skill makes it LESS team work... yes... the ONLY bad wrong thing is trying to force others to do things your way. 100% saying "Man I hate my players don't have fun my way" is wrong... it might be the only wrong way to have fun. [/QUOTE]

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