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"I make a perception check."
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8722031" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Just to step out of the endless replying I've been doing for a moment. </p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'm not against asking for clarification when a player asks to do something.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'm not against asking for methods when they are doing something actively vague, or with social skills that I feel need that response. I fully can get behind someone asking for "where do you hide" when a player asks to stealth. That is information you need.</li> </ul><p></p><p>Where I start getting a touch annoyed is when the players intent and action are obvious. If you just finished describing a door, and they hold up a die and say "investigation?" then they are clearly attempting to find traps or other hidden dangers in the door. If your goal isn't any sort of "gotcha" then that is plenty of information to allow the roll to proceed and adjudicate the results. </p><p></p><p>Additionally, if a player has declared their intent is to detect and avoid traps, and you force them to take "any action" before you let them attempt to detect traps, and their action leads to the trap triggering with no hope of detecting it. I find that to be a crappy move. You knew their intent was to detect the trap, setting it off without letting them attempt to detect it is just punishing them for guessing wrong on which actions were safe to take. </p><p></p><p>And finally, I just get annoyed with people who act like declaring an action without mentioning the game mechanics is somehow superior roleplaying to just using the game jargon to ask the same question. And there have been more than a few people in this rant thread who have responded with ideas of "training players" out of doing so, with the intent of making them "better players". I understand for some of you the D20 is a sign of failure, because it could fail, while you believe declaring your actions means you will be allowed to auto-succeed the majority of the time. That isn't how everyone plays. Most of us have a consensus at the table of what actions are likely to need a d20, because the outcome is uncertain. If convincing the King isn't something that is uncertain, because the players have the knowledge already, great. But if you make it certain because a player makes a really great speech that moves you... honestly less great. Because this prioritizes your players comfortable with speech-making instead of those who built a character who is supposed to be able to mechanically resolve uncertainty in social situations. </p><p></p><p>Frankly, I don't think the two styles are that far apart. But I think failing forward really resolves any issues with turning to the d20 when you as the player aren't sure of what exact action will get you the information or result you want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8722031, member: 6801228"] Just to step out of the endless replying I've been doing for a moment. [LIST] [*]I'm not against asking for clarification when a player asks to do something. [*]I'm not against asking for methods when they are doing something actively vague, or with social skills that I feel need that response. I fully can get behind someone asking for "where do you hide" when a player asks to stealth. That is information you need. [/LIST] Where I start getting a touch annoyed is when the players intent and action are obvious. If you just finished describing a door, and they hold up a die and say "investigation?" then they are clearly attempting to find traps or other hidden dangers in the door. If your goal isn't any sort of "gotcha" then that is plenty of information to allow the roll to proceed and adjudicate the results. Additionally, if a player has declared their intent is to detect and avoid traps, and you force them to take "any action" before you let them attempt to detect traps, and their action leads to the trap triggering with no hope of detecting it. I find that to be a crappy move. You knew their intent was to detect the trap, setting it off without letting them attempt to detect it is just punishing them for guessing wrong on which actions were safe to take. And finally, I just get annoyed with people who act like declaring an action without mentioning the game mechanics is somehow superior roleplaying to just using the game jargon to ask the same question. And there have been more than a few people in this rant thread who have responded with ideas of "training players" out of doing so, with the intent of making them "better players". I understand for some of you the D20 is a sign of failure, because it could fail, while you believe declaring your actions means you will be allowed to auto-succeed the majority of the time. That isn't how everyone plays. Most of us have a consensus at the table of what actions are likely to need a d20, because the outcome is uncertain. If convincing the King isn't something that is uncertain, because the players have the knowledge already, great. But if you make it certain because a player makes a really great speech that moves you... honestly less great. Because this prioritizes your players comfortable with speech-making instead of those who built a character who is supposed to be able to mechanically resolve uncertainty in social situations. Frankly, I don't think the two styles are that far apart. But I think failing forward really resolves any issues with turning to the d20 when you as the player aren't sure of what exact action will get you the information or result you want. [/QUOTE]
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