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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 8722798" data-attributes="member: 7026594">Of course I would allow a saving throw if you walked into the trap.I've just finished catching up on the thread after the weekend, and this is one of many examples of you projecting bad faith play onto your interlocutor.I noticed a couple of people have similarly distorted my example of the assassin in the alcove to turn it into some gotcha scenario where an evil viking hat DM is looking for an opportunity to stab a poor PC in the back if they don't say the magic words, rather than an example of a situation where a character can automatically see a previously completely hidden foe if they move into the right position.  If they simply participate in play by describing what their character does or attempts to do, thereby giving the DM enough information to picture the scene and adjudicate their actions.I read with a bit of frustration and bemusement the exchange where Celebrim gave examples of four garden walls, each with likely different difficulties to climb, but also potential hidden hazards, and [USER=67338]@GMforPowergamers[/USER] seemed to breeze completely past the point of the player owning his character's decision about which wall to try.  I disagree with how Celebrim uses the word Railroading (I subscribe to a purely pejorative definition), but he's completely correct that if I as the DM simply let the player roll athletics and then narrate him climbing over the easiest wall, I've taken control out of the hands of the player, and implicitly communicated that there were no hazards on any of the walls.</blockquote>

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