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"I make a perception check."
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8722988" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Quite often investigation first in mine as well, but I notice the "no real reason" comment. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Interestingly enough, the game that I'm talking about where it felt like Theater were only the Drapes changed had the Sea of Fallen Stars in the Forgotten Realms mapped out down to a 1 mile grid for a significant portion of the Inner Sea and surrounding nations, and there was also a significant amount of PC created stuff as well (for example, my PC was a crime lord and I had made maps for all the buildings that I owned or had built). So while I am forced to believe you when you saw that you don't enjoy that sort of "everything happens on a stage game", the evidence you provide in no way contradicts or removes the possibility of what I was imagining. The DM probably had the most extensive world building notes I've ever seen, with stacks and stacks of 5" binders stuffed full of all the information either revised the FR canon or filled in the gaps in it. So yeah, loving world building doesn't preclude the possibility of running a game in the way I described.</p><p></p><p>However, if I were to assume you were running a game where fictional position really did come into play a lot, that leaves me again unable to imagine how you do that while taking only bare moves as action propositions. You've kind of hinted around that you basically hand wave around this by using your knowledge of the fiction to fill in the gaps charitably on behalf of the player, or negotiate with the player until they offer the proposition you want them to offer, while denying you do either. And at the same time you deny this, you express either no concern for fictional positioning and intent or frustration as to why anyone would think fictional positioning matters since it all comes down to a dice roll anyway.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think a big part of the problem here is you have no idea what I'm talking about, as this response really doesn't address the claim I made. You use the words "transcript" and "narration" in your response in ways that don't seem appropriate to the context. By transcript I mean that if you had someone watching your game and typing down everything that happened in the imaginary space ("the game world"), then the produced product would be the transcript. Notice that the transcript would not have moves like, "I roll Perception" or "I do 12 damage in it" in it, because that doesn't happen in the imaginary space. Now it would have everything that happened in the imaginary space but which which wasn't said by either a PC or an NPC, and that part of the transcript is "the narration". </p><p></p><p>So if I had your transcript of play, what would be in it? Like if you have an action proposition like "I roll diplomacy" what ends up in the transcript and who says it? Does nothing end up in the transcript? Does something like, "You say, "Yadda yadda yadda to the bartender" and he says, "Since you're such a good customer I'll tell you. A few days ago there was this group of dwarves in the bar..." What exactly does your transcript of play look like? Because so much of your game seems to occur entirely in the meta that I can't imagine it and every time I try to you say that I'm getting it wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then you are going to have to refine some of your former answers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8722988, member: 4937"] Quite often investigation first in mine as well, but I notice the "no real reason" comment. Interestingly enough, the game that I'm talking about where it felt like Theater were only the Drapes changed had the Sea of Fallen Stars in the Forgotten Realms mapped out down to a 1 mile grid for a significant portion of the Inner Sea and surrounding nations, and there was also a significant amount of PC created stuff as well (for example, my PC was a crime lord and I had made maps for all the buildings that I owned or had built). So while I am forced to believe you when you saw that you don't enjoy that sort of "everything happens on a stage game", the evidence you provide in no way contradicts or removes the possibility of what I was imagining. The DM probably had the most extensive world building notes I've ever seen, with stacks and stacks of 5" binders stuffed full of all the information either revised the FR canon or filled in the gaps in it. So yeah, loving world building doesn't preclude the possibility of running a game in the way I described. However, if I were to assume you were running a game where fictional position really did come into play a lot, that leaves me again unable to imagine how you do that while taking only bare moves as action propositions. You've kind of hinted around that you basically hand wave around this by using your knowledge of the fiction to fill in the gaps charitably on behalf of the player, or negotiate with the player until they offer the proposition you want them to offer, while denying you do either. And at the same time you deny this, you express either no concern for fictional positioning and intent or frustration as to why anyone would think fictional positioning matters since it all comes down to a dice roll anyway. I think a big part of the problem here is you have no idea what I'm talking about, as this response really doesn't address the claim I made. You use the words "transcript" and "narration" in your response in ways that don't seem appropriate to the context. By transcript I mean that if you had someone watching your game and typing down everything that happened in the imaginary space ("the game world"), then the produced product would be the transcript. Notice that the transcript would not have moves like, "I roll Perception" or "I do 12 damage in it" in it, because that doesn't happen in the imaginary space. Now it would have everything that happened in the imaginary space but which which wasn't said by either a PC or an NPC, and that part of the transcript is "the narration". So if I had your transcript of play, what would be in it? Like if you have an action proposition like "I roll diplomacy" what ends up in the transcript and who says it? Does nothing end up in the transcript? Does something like, "You say, "Yadda yadda yadda to the bartender" and he says, "Since you're such a good customer I'll tell you. A few days ago there was this group of dwarves in the bar..." What exactly does your transcript of play look like? Because so much of your game seems to occur entirely in the meta that I can't imagine it and every time I try to you say that I'm getting it wrong. Then you are going to have to refine some of your former answers. [/QUOTE]
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