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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8723235" data-attributes="member: 67338">and this is why it's so hard to have conversations about this...   we both 100% believe in our hearts we and only we are on the side of immersion... I think that your way would break mine constantly.I am going to try to go through this with you but I warn you I doubt this ends well...I don't understand your transcript of play...do you mean we aren't counting the fart and monte python jokes or the aside about my fiancé saying goodnight? or do you mean something else? If i read this right and that is what you mean then I agree that once games start we should keep interruptions to a minimum... but since we are all adults with lives that is never going to be what it was in highschool and college.now this is what I was afraid of... describing actions or asking questions about the world IMO are still being immersive, even if they are OOC   (again dumb jokes and puns not so much)how is I use diplomacy on the guard any more or less immersive then I use charm person on the guard?  my wizard doesn't say "I use charm person on you"...   as long as it is about the game I think it belongs. the part I think we disagree on is micro scale and macro scale...if I read a book (or watch something on netflix) and there is a scene were there is a tense back and forth between the guards and the main character that is cool... if they set up there are guards he says he can talk past them then we cut to in the base I can infer that he talked past them... the amount of details don't matter...this 'transcript of play' just skips the same part your players want to.or... as I just said we just skip that scene (maybe it makes it in the directors cut of the movie but not the theatrical cut)oh I don't need method acting for immersion... infact I can have someone narrate full 3rd person. i don't know if I follow... I mean if there character is there they should be seeing it 1st person... but sometimes (even if we know not a great idea) we split the party and if we do some players ARE the audience then.no not at all infact i keep repeating there are good and bad games of both styles... if I can narrate myself an auto success or an auto fail without ever picking up a d20 then we have MY immersion break when the uncharismatic unskilled character can out talk the one that is charismatic and skilled if the player can.in fact this was example 1 where we hit a problem.  We ran into (at begining of 3.0 and even into 3.5) players gaming the system... min maxing by taking low or no skill in things they knew they could talk the DM into not rolling and useing those pts (pt buy stats, high rolls. skillpts feat choices ect) instead on things the DM would roll for... then other players that could not talk around it had put pts in things and itt broke the narrative...the charasmatic characte never the face the low cha characters were</blockquote>

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