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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8725259" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>You may not have done so intentionally, but you’ve just positioned the process of striving to overcome obstacles as being at odds with “the fun we have at the table.” To me, striving to overcome obstacles <em>is</em> the fun we have at the table, or at least a significant part of it.</p><p></p><p>I agree that failing to overcome an obstacle can be just as fun as succeeding, and sometimes even more fun (even if it <em>does</em> end in character death), just as chess can be fun even when you lose. The striving is really where the fun mostly comes from, not the end result, and in fact, I think succeeding is less fun if you don’t fail sometimes. In any given moment, I want to try my best to succeed, but in the long run the game is more fun if there’s a mix of success and failure. That’s why games have rules structures to make the pursuit of your goals challenging, so you can always be trying your best to succeed and still end up with a mix of successes and failures.</p><p></p><p>More or less. It isn’t a perfect analogy because in Chess the game is over once someone gets a checkmate, whereas slaying the dragon in D&D doesn’t necessarily end the game. Often, there will be a few overarching campaign goals and many more small individual goals, and so there can be many victories (and many losses) of varying significance, throughout the course of a campaign. The ultimate goal, of course, is for the sum of all these victories and losses to take the shape of a story - hopefully an exciting, memorable one.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8725259, member: 6779196"] You may not have done so intentionally, but you’ve just positioned the process of striving to overcome obstacles as being at odds with “the fun we have at the table.” To me, striving to overcome obstacles [I]is[/I] the fun we have at the table, or at least a significant part of it. I agree that failing to overcome an obstacle can be just as fun as succeeding, and sometimes even more fun (even if it [I]does[/I] end in character death), just as chess can be fun even when you lose. The striving is really where the fun mostly comes from, not the end result, and in fact, I think succeeding is less fun if you don’t fail sometimes. In any given moment, I want to try my best to succeed, but in the long run the game is more fun if there’s a mix of success and failure. That’s why games have rules structures to make the pursuit of your goals challenging, so you can always be trying your best to succeed and still end up with a mix of successes and failures. More or less. It isn’t a perfect analogy because in Chess the game is over once someone gets a checkmate, whereas slaying the dragon in D&D doesn’t necessarily end the game. Often, there will be a few overarching campaign goals and many more small individual goals, and so there can be many victories (and many losses) of varying significance, throughout the course of a campaign. The ultimate goal, of course, is for the sum of all these victories and losses to take the shape of a story - hopefully an exciting, memorable one. [/QUOTE]
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