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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8727988" data-attributes="member: 6801228">They were the only ones in the example, so it would be entirely unfair of me to add more.So now I should assume Variant humans? Maybe assume we are playing in Dragonlance? I can assume the DM homebrewed them to give them all expertise in Perception too, but that wasn't part of the original example, so it would be entirely unfair of me to shift the example like that.No. The GOBLIN succeeds 60% of the time. That is a 40% chance of success for Passive Perception (+6 mod vs DC 14). That's like saying it is a choice to breath. Looking for danger while in the dungeon is the default stance. And there is NOTHING in the rules that says you can use the help action for passive checks. And maybe you homebrew it that way, but this is literally the first I'm hearing about it.Sure, you'll tell me how you do things, then the moment I challenge that way you'll disengage. I'm not interested in bickering or mud-slinging either (though I'm getting very annoyed with this conversation) but if I can't challenge your assumptions, then what is the point of the discussion? "Here is why I do things goodbye" would have finished this entire conversation days ago, because it isn't a conversation, it is an informational pamphlet.So counter-ambushes are impossible in your games, because no one ever spots an ambush before it is sprung, and warns their side? I don't even know what to do with this. You arbitrarily decide that looking for secret doors is different than looking for traps, hazards, and ambushes, then decide that it is impossible to spot an ambush before it happens. I guess the passive perception for traps just gives advantage on the roll to avoid them, since they would still go off?I have been saying they walk to the center of the room looking for traps this entire time. That was why we had that ENTIRE conversation about intent, because the intent was they were looking for traps. So now we are back at the frickin beginning of the conversation. "I move to the center of the room looking for traps" isn't specific enough. Because using your eyes isn't specific enough. So, let's just take this to the logical conclusion. "I carefully crawl towards the center of the room, 1 inch at a time, tapping my 10 ft pole on every surface while jerking back in case I activate a trap." That's specifc enough, and I'll do that in every room and hallway now, because that's what it seems to take to not just automatically be hit by a trap. I'm sure I'll be impaled by the spikes that shoot from the floor for being on the ground for too long, but I'm going to fail no matter what I do it seems. Well, at least until I make my new character who has mage hand and a stick and can carefully poke everything in the room from 30 ft away.Then why are you bothering to post in a thread talking to me about the rules if you don't actually care to converse about them? I started this conversation to explain why players act the way they do. Why claiming that they aren't telling you what actions they take isn't true from their perspective, and that in their minds they are doing exactly what you are asking for. Why your and other peoples claims of "it isn't that hard" misses that it seems to be far harder than you think. If you don't care about any of that, why even bother pretending to have a conversation?</blockquote>

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