Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
I miss 4E
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 5350131" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>OK, I'm being hyperbolic...I hope! But let me explain at length.</p><p></p><p>Let's start by looking at the release schedule for 4E hardcovers, from the beginning of 2010 to the first few months of 2011:</p><p></p><p>January - <em>Underdark</em></p><p>February - <em>Martial Power 2</em></p><p>March - <em>Player's Handbook 3</em></p><p>April - <em>The Plane Above</em></p><p>May - <em>Player's Strategy Guide, Dungeon Magazine Annual</em></p><p>June - <em>Monster Manual 3</em></p><p>July - <em>Demonomicon, Tomb of Horrors</em></p><p>August - <em>Dark Sun Campaign Guide, Dark Sun Creature Catalog, Psionic Power</em></p><p>September - None</p><p>October - None</p><p>November - None</p><p>December - None</p><p>January - None</p><p>February - None</p><p>March - None</p><p>April - <em>Mordenkainen's Magnificient Emporium</em></p><p></p><p>That's twelve hardcovers in the first eight months of 2010, then none in the following seven months until April of 2011. I know, I know, in that time you've got a slew of Essentials products, including the Red Box<em>, Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Rules Compendium, Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, The DM's Kit, </em>and <em>Monster Vault </em>all within September through November, then in March two products that seem to follow the Essentials format: <em>Class Compendium </em>and<em> Heroes of Shadow. </em>But again, we're talking about an <strong>eight month span </strong>(mid-August to mid-April) without a new hardcover.</p><p></p><p>Of even greater concern than the dearth of hardcovers is the fact that most of that material is no more or less than Essentialized 4E. That is, the whole line, for the most part, is just a reprinting, reformatting, and rehashing of older material. Sure, it is updated and errata-ed with a few new bells and whistles, but we're not really seeing anything new, at least not until <em>Heroes of Shadow </em>in March of 2011, afaict.</p><p></p><p>So again, my thread title: I miss 4E. Or to paraphrase Sting, <em>I want my 4th ED.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em>I am writing this not only to complain, but more so to express concern. What is this about? It is as if WotC decided that the path they had been traveling from June of 2008 to August of 2010 wasn't working, or was tapped out, so they veered away into a detour that is lasting until at least March of 2011, after which it remains to be seen what direction they will take. D&D may return to the regularly scheduled programming: an average of a bit more than one hardcover per month, plus various odds and ends. Or we could be done with that and be facing an Essentialized future of 4E. Or, more likely, we could be facing some combination of both.</p><p></p><p>I'm worried. Why did WotC feel this was a good idea? I get it: they want to attract new players and the Red Box may just do that. But a whole line? Why not just the Red Box, the <em>Rules Compendium, </em>and then a revised and updated <em>Player's Handbook? </em>Or maybe even, rather than the two <em>Heroes </em>books, a <em>Player's Handbook 4 </em>with the Essentialized versions of the classic classes that we see in the two <em>Heroes </em>books? In other words, why not try to feed buyers of the Red Box back into the 4E hardcovers? Why create an entirely separate product line?</p><p></p><p>We can all hope that Essentials is successful in that it will bring new blood into the D&D community; or, as some have said, that it will bring lapsed players, or players of older editions, back into the 4E fold. But if it is <em>too</em> successful, won't WotC be tempted to drop the old hardcover format and go forth with digest books and box sets and little to no hardcovers?</p><p></p><p>I like hardcovers. I like box sets too, and I like digest books for certain things, like the <em>Rules Compendium. </em>But I dislike <em>Heroes of the Fallen Lands</em> and will not be purchasing the next in the line. I am still thinking about the <em>DM's Kit </em>and <em>Monster Vault. </em>But as a whole I prefer the "classic" 4E hardcover approach to the digest/box set approach, and more so--while I only would buy about half the hardcovers (I would stay away from the Power books, among others)--I miss the opportunity to buy a new book with new material once or twice a month.</p><p></p><p>One final note. I can honestly say that I'm surprised about the anecdotes we hear in which people say something to the effect of "I hated 4E but loved Essentials." I just don't get it. I mean, Essentials <em>is </em>4E. The only significant difference is that they rolled back martial characters to their pre-<em>Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon</em> incarnations. I get that some people don't like their tank fighters with daily and encounter powers, but is this one, relatively minor, difference really transform some people from hating 4E to wanting to play it?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 5350131, member: 59082"] OK, I'm being hyperbolic...I hope! But let me explain at length. Let's start by looking at the release schedule for 4E hardcovers, from the beginning of 2010 to the first few months of 2011: January - [I]Underdark[/I] February - [I]Martial Power 2[/I] March - [I]Player's Handbook 3[/I] April - [I]The Plane Above[/I] May - [I]Player's Strategy Guide, Dungeon Magazine Annual[/I] June - [I]Monster Manual 3[/I] July - [I]Demonomicon, Tomb of Horrors[/I] August - [I]Dark Sun Campaign Guide, Dark Sun Creature Catalog, Psionic Power[/I] September - None October - None November - None December - None January - None February - None March - None April - [I]Mordenkainen's Magnificient Emporium[/I] That's twelve hardcovers in the first eight months of 2010, then none in the following seven months until April of 2011. I know, I know, in that time you've got a slew of Essentials products, including the Red Box[I], Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Rules Compendium, Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, The DM's Kit, [/I]and [I]Monster Vault [/I]all within September through November, then in March two products that seem to follow the Essentials format: [I]Class Compendium [/I]and[I] Heroes of Shadow. [/I]But again, we're talking about an [B]eight month span [/B](mid-August to mid-April) without a new hardcover. Of even greater concern than the dearth of hardcovers is the fact that most of that material is no more or less than Essentialized 4E. That is, the whole line, for the most part, is just a reprinting, reformatting, and rehashing of older material. Sure, it is updated and errata-ed with a few new bells and whistles, but we're not really seeing anything new, at least not until [I]Heroes of Shadow [/I]in March of 2011, afaict. So again, my thread title: I miss 4E. Or to paraphrase Sting, [I]I want my 4th ED. [/I]I am writing this not only to complain, but more so to express concern. What is this about? It is as if WotC decided that the path they had been traveling from June of 2008 to August of 2010 wasn't working, or was tapped out, so they veered away into a detour that is lasting until at least March of 2011, after which it remains to be seen what direction they will take. D&D may return to the regularly scheduled programming: an average of a bit more than one hardcover per month, plus various odds and ends. Or we could be done with that and be facing an Essentialized future of 4E. Or, more likely, we could be facing some combination of both. I'm worried. Why did WotC feel this was a good idea? I get it: they want to attract new players and the Red Box may just do that. But a whole line? Why not just the Red Box, the [I]Rules Compendium, [/I]and then a revised and updated [I]Player's Handbook? [/I]Or maybe even, rather than the two [I]Heroes [/I]books, a [I]Player's Handbook 4 [/I]with the Essentialized versions of the classic classes that we see in the two [I]Heroes [/I]books? In other words, why not try to feed buyers of the Red Box back into the 4E hardcovers? Why create an entirely separate product line? We can all hope that Essentials is successful in that it will bring new blood into the D&D community; or, as some have said, that it will bring lapsed players, or players of older editions, back into the 4E fold. But if it is [I]too[/I] successful, won't WotC be tempted to drop the old hardcover format and go forth with digest books and box sets and little to no hardcovers? I like hardcovers. I like box sets too, and I like digest books for certain things, like the [I]Rules Compendium. [/I]But I dislike [I]Heroes of the Fallen Lands[/I] and will not be purchasing the next in the line. I am still thinking about the [I]DM's Kit [/I]and [I]Monster Vault. [/I]But as a whole I prefer the "classic" 4E hardcover approach to the digest/box set approach, and more so--while I only would buy about half the hardcovers (I would stay away from the Power books, among others)--I miss the opportunity to buy a new book with new material once or twice a month. One final note. I can honestly say that I'm surprised about the anecdotes we hear in which people say something to the effect of "I hated 4E but loved Essentials." I just don't get it. I mean, Essentials [I]is [/I]4E. The only significant difference is that they rolled back martial characters to their pre-[I]Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon[/I] incarnations. I get that some people don't like their tank fighters with daily and encounter powers, but is this one, relatively minor, difference really transform some people from hating 4E to wanting to play it? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
I miss 4E
Top