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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lackhand" data-source="post: 4229412" data-attributes="member: 36160">Sort of a tangent. Actually, just a tangent -- this is purely an alignment debate, and therefore Godwinned from the start. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In my last campaign, I used a five-fold alignment system (sixfold, actually), which fit my needs perfectly. It basically divorces the "team" aspects of alignment from the behavioral ones, and couples the behavioral aspects of alignment with a societal norm defined within each "team".I cribbed liberally from Magic (and Dusk):Saintly: The "white" religion, closest to LG or LN, and related to the organized church this setting had; the alignment of knights and clerics of the good gods, and those who serve them. So long as the individual stuck to a code of honor that was within the societal norms for the church, they were fine -- tithing, charity, protecting other Saintlys.(LG and worshippers, in 4e, of Pelor, Erathis, Melora, Tymora, Bane (eh. Shush. I like the greek mythological symbolism I've set up), Moradin, or Ioun. Those who actively worship Bane or Tymora end up different alignments...)Pagan: The "green" religion, closest to CG, CN, or NN; the followers of the Old Ways and those who live outside the bounds of The Church, believers in the essential goodness of everything and the perverting effects of Order on the common Good.(G and worshippers of Corellon, Sehanine, and Lolth; Kord and Gruumsh; followers of The Shalm; various mystery cults.)Scholastic: The "blue" religion, closest to LN or NN (but got along reasonably well with Pagans, other than their mystic trappings). Scientifically minded, unconcerned with that which cannot be comprehended, but devoted to reasonably pure pursuits in any case. They often practice relativistic morals and concentrate on side effects of their actions and personal introspection and comprehension.(Unaligned. Worshippers of Ioun who miss the point; this alignment probably won't surive into 4e for me. It worked for my last campaign, though <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Followers of the Dragon Gods go here too.)Cultic: The "red" religion, closest to CN, NE, or CE; similarly mystic to the Pagans, but with a moral compass which points "south" more often than not. Required to engage in distasteful acts for their gods and goddesses. Kind of incomprehensible because they don't subscribe to any version of The Common Good but instead reject that as a useful metric, accepting instead the furtherance of an idea completely divorced from the good/evil ethical lens (such as The Triumph of the Blood God or the Eradication of the Surface Elves or so forth).(CE or Unaligned; The Raven Queen, followers of Gruumsh, Lolth, demons and other false gods; Tiamat, monster cults, and false prophets)Nihilistic: The "black" religion, closest to LE. What happens when Scholastic turns evil, or Cultic keeps the obsession but loses the mystic trappings; as such, they're the most comprehensible because their acts make a twisted kind of sense. They have a similar code of conduct to Saintly, but tend to overemphasize ends over means -- individuals of great worth over common good; long term over short term -- and to be convinced of the rightness of their moral calculus.(E. Followers of Bane formost, or Zehir, or those who deny the gods openly, secretly, or unwittingly (Asmodeus...? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ).So, not to put too fine a point on it... I can understand where the 4e alignments come from... because I've been there and I've done that. It worked like a charm <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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