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I need a D&D counseling session! Help! (Re: Update ("Argument-Stopping Protocols" -- please advise!))
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 7954647" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>For me, reading [USER=6688049]@Dungeonosophy[/USER]’s account of your conflict certainly did give me the impression of a “problem player,” but since I was only seeing one side of the story, I assumed that you would seem far more reasonable from your own perspective (in general, I always assume that people seem reasonable from their own perspectives, and if someone seems irrational from my perspective, I probably don’t fully understand theirs.) Reading your account of the conflict basically confirmed my suspicion, that it was not a case of one unreasonable player, but of two reasonable people whose play goals were misaligned, and whose communication styles clashed. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. I understand this well, as my partner is also an artist (hence my insight into the fact that artists generally don’t take kindly to their art being repurposed for D&D characters they weren’t commissioned for), and I also host my group’s D&D game at our house. Fortunately for me, they also like D&D and are part of our regular group, but it’s something I’ve had to contend with when I have other fiends over to play board games or cards. That’s at least a more manageable problem though. You say there aren’t any better options, but have you considered playing online with a virtual tabletop such as Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds? Especially with the current pandemic, online gaming does have its disadvantages, but is still an excellent alternative when in-person isn’t a viable option. My parter’s and my other housemate does this with their separate D&D group and it causes us no trouble at all.</p><p></p><p></p><p>My opinion on traps is that they are at their best when properly telegraphed. A trap that the players have no way of anticipating that just does some damage or otherwise messes with them isn’t fun for anyone. It’s just a random setback that basically can’t be avoided except by either systematically searching every square inch of the dungeon, or by coincidentally choosing to search at the right time. In either case, it’s not really a choice on the part of the player, it’s a standard operating procedure or a random guess. But what <em>is</em> interesting is when the DM seeds their description of the environment with clues that indicate the presence of a trap. Don’t just have a pressure plate that springs a trap and does some damage if any player happens to step in the wrong spot, <em>describe</em> how the floor is oddly raised in this particular section of the floor. That rewards players who pay close attention to your description, and it gives the players the opportunity to interact with the environment and make meaningful decisions rather than just springing some unavoidable damage on them. Similarly, when players do blunder into a trap, I think it’s best to give them an opportunity to react to it. When they step on that pressure plate, describe the feeling of the floor sinking under their foot and the <em>click</em> sound as the tile settles into place, then ask them what they do. Based on the way the trap works and what the character does, you might grant advantage or impose disadvantage on the saving throw, or even automatic success or failure.</p><p></p><p>For example, maybe you’ve described a series of holes in the wall, precisely one inch apart. The players suspect a trap and search for pressure plates or trip wires, but fail their Perception check, or maybe the mechanism is something else that their approach wouldn’t be able to detect. Either way, they spring the trap. You describe the sound of ancient machinery grinding into action and ask the players what they do. The Fighter raises her shield, hoping to block anything that might come out of the holes. The rogue rolls away from the wall hoping to dodge out of the way. The wizard holds his breath, anticipating poison gas to pour out. The cleric drops Prone, expecting projectiles. Then the DM describes jets of fire shooting out from the holes. The Fighter can make a Dexterity save with half cover (+2 AC) for her raised shield. The rogue doesn’t have to save at all because he rolled away and the flame jets don’t reach that far. The wizard doesn’t get a save and takes full damage because holding his breath does nothing to protect them from the flames. The cleric makes their save with advantage - dropping prone gets them out of the way for the most part, but could still plausibly be singed. In this way, the players get to make decisions and have those decisions rewarded or punished in a way that they can see how their actions directly impact the narrative, rather than simply taking damage for stepping somewhere they had no way of knowing not to step.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You’re very welcome <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😊" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60a.png" title="Smiling face with smiling eyes :blush:" data-shortname=":blush:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /> Thank you (both of you) for sharing your experiences and seeking advice from other players and DMs!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 7954647, member: 6779196"] For me, reading [USER=6688049]@Dungeonosophy[/USER]’s account of your conflict certainly did give me the impression of a “problem player,” but since I was only seeing one side of the story, I assumed that you would seem far more reasonable from your own perspective (in general, I always assume that people seem reasonable from their own perspectives, and if someone seems irrational from my perspective, I probably don’t fully understand theirs.) Reading your account of the conflict basically confirmed my suspicion, that it was not a case of one unreasonable player, but of two reasonable people whose play goals were misaligned, and whose communication styles clashed. Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. I understand this well, as my partner is also an artist (hence my insight into the fact that artists generally don’t take kindly to their art being repurposed for D&D characters they weren’t commissioned for), and I also host my group’s D&D game at our house. Fortunately for me, they also like D&D and are part of our regular group, but it’s something I’ve had to contend with when I have other fiends over to play board games or cards. That’s at least a more manageable problem though. You say there aren’t any better options, but have you considered playing online with a virtual tabletop such as Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds? Especially with the current pandemic, online gaming does have its disadvantages, but is still an excellent alternative when in-person isn’t a viable option. My parter’s and my other housemate does this with their separate D&D group and it causes us no trouble at all. My opinion on traps is that they are at their best when properly telegraphed. A trap that the players have no way of anticipating that just does some damage or otherwise messes with them isn’t fun for anyone. It’s just a random setback that basically can’t be avoided except by either systematically searching every square inch of the dungeon, or by coincidentally choosing to search at the right time. In either case, it’s not really a choice on the part of the player, it’s a standard operating procedure or a random guess. But what [I]is[/I] interesting is when the DM seeds their description of the environment with clues that indicate the presence of a trap. Don’t just have a pressure plate that springs a trap and does some damage if any player happens to step in the wrong spot, [I]describe[/I] how the floor is oddly raised in this particular section of the floor. That rewards players who pay close attention to your description, and it gives the players the opportunity to interact with the environment and make meaningful decisions rather than just springing some unavoidable damage on them. Similarly, when players do blunder into a trap, I think it’s best to give them an opportunity to react to it. When they step on that pressure plate, describe the feeling of the floor sinking under their foot and the [I]click[/I] sound as the tile settles into place, then ask them what they do. Based on the way the trap works and what the character does, you might grant advantage or impose disadvantage on the saving throw, or even automatic success or failure. For example, maybe you’ve described a series of holes in the wall, precisely one inch apart. The players suspect a trap and search for pressure plates or trip wires, but fail their Perception check, or maybe the mechanism is something else that their approach wouldn’t be able to detect. Either way, they spring the trap. You describe the sound of ancient machinery grinding into action and ask the players what they do. The Fighter raises her shield, hoping to block anything that might come out of the holes. The rogue rolls away from the wall hoping to dodge out of the way. The wizard holds his breath, anticipating poison gas to pour out. The cleric drops Prone, expecting projectiles. Then the DM describes jets of fire shooting out from the holes. The Fighter can make a Dexterity save with half cover (+2 AC) for her raised shield. The rogue doesn’t have to save at all because he rolled away and the flame jets don’t reach that far. The wizard doesn’t get a save and takes full damage because holding his breath does nothing to protect them from the flames. The cleric makes their save with advantage - dropping prone gets them out of the way for the most part, but could still plausibly be singed. In this way, the players get to make decisions and have those decisions rewarded or punished in a way that they can see how their actions directly impact the narrative, rather than simply taking damage for stepping somewhere they had no way of knowing not to step. You’re very welcome 😊 Thank you (both of you) for sharing your experiences and seeking advice from other players and DMs! [/QUOTE]
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