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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Droop-in-soup" data-source="post: 7954824" data-attributes="member: 7022302">[USER=4881]@Sabathius42[/USER]I don't yet know what OP means. Could you clarify that?I want to say at the beginning, so it is not missed, that everyone that I've seen speak on this forum has made significant progress in developing real awareness and social skills. There is a lot of self-development going on. I appreciate that, and I am working to change my perspectives to make the as accurate and healthy as I can. You are showing a lot of capacity to me in the way you express yourself here. It is clear that many people here are further along than I am with the things that I am struggling with. I want this mood to start this post.Your response is quite unexpected, in the positive, and you really point to the most important thing there is.(Some things I originally shared here, I found in reflection to be personal in a way that I feel I should have said it in a personal message, and as no one responded to it anyway, I will remove those parts, and that feels better to me. I'm still learning about public forums.)I will add a spoiler button to shorten the post. It is not too long, but still, it is good for the forum.[spoiler= To continue the post, click here.]First though, being 90% sure that this threat is a troll from us, wow. That never crossed my mind. Not only do you have a bleak picture of us, you have a bleak picture of what people will do out of bizarre motivations. This would be a modern crank call of epic proportions. Do you think people could make all this stuff up?  Do writers troll threads to take on a character to build a book? These are new ideas for me. I don't frequent forums, so I haven't experienced trolls.In this case, no, this is 2 real people. But you will have to sort your feelings out yourself I guess.(Further reflection on this has given me the thought that it may well be that my friend and I are unusually interested in looking closely at how we are feeling when it comes to a situation that needs that kind of sorting, and we gather a lot of details. And so since it doesn't make sense for what most people would do, you come to a conclusion that maybe this isn't real? I think you're quite astute somehow. It would not be the first time people would prefer I didn't dig into a situation the way I do. I expect we are similar in our interest in that.)So you do something with your thinking that I don't expect most people to do. You move your perspective of observation way out to high perspectives, and back down to minute personal life. This is very significant in my estimation.  It is a spiritual activity that people can do. I spend a lot of time doing that very activity.... personal stuff. It was not necessary, in retrospect.Once it got started, both of us made the choice to share the experience that we are creating together, and the emotions and confusion are the elements of it we do not have a handle on yet.  So it turns out we are bringing it to a group.  For those with experience in 12 steps or similar methods of individual self development, then a process like this can be viewed as a similar request for peer review and receiving perceptions of people with valuable experience and wisdom in the realm we are struggling in who are not hooked-in like we are. Since the trouble was in D&D, the opportunity presented itself here.  Our struggles are not unique to us. People here relate well to it, I think.  But it is a surprise to you and others how much turmoil we are able to show.  It is because we actively look for it and work with it.  And since we are a work in progress, it is still messy where it is messy.  I can assure you, it is not so messy as it would be if we didn't have practice taking ourselves in hand.So to the picture you share. Regarding one part: If I was in this just for fun, I would probably not play with this person. I would do like you suggest, take the 3 minutes and look to maximize the fun my soul can have if I leave someone who pushes me into messy, unconscious and not-fun emotions .  For me, life is not about being happy as an individual. I hope to make a real difference in this world, with all the problems you point to, and I find that I won't be able to do that in the way that is needed if I don't take in hand what is unconscious in me.  Anyone who wants to go that path, will find inside themselves something much messier than just your adult self who has it all together.[/spoiler]One other comment I want to edit in after some more thinking.  One thing you demonstrate that I admire and praise so highly is that you take yourself from the near problem out into the widest perspective, and gather the essentials from there, and then come back to the point of trouble and judge it from that higher vantage.  That is an activity that has the potential to systematically overcome abstractions in thinking.  By abstract, I mean looking at a perspective that is cut out of a greater whole, and does not take the greater whole in account.  Today's common thinking makes the mistake of functioning in narrow perspectives to our serious detriment.  You demonstrate a method that is one I have the highest praise for.  I expect you would be a very interesting person to get to know.I hope that this speaks to you. It is my best attempt today.Time doesn't allow more than one run through. But it felt clear enough to go without major revising.- - -I keep finding new thoughts by reviewing the things you said.[Spoiler=new thoughts- open]I think on some level you're also pointing to a question that might be expressed like this: What is wrong with these people, why do they just keep doing this? Are they that stupid?When I look at the situation with that question, on one level yeah, you will see in my others posts that I call myself obtuse. Meaning that in reflection some things become obvious, but I didn't see it before. Sometimes I think you want to say to us that we shouldn't be making these mistakes, as if it should be obvious already. But everyone is where they are at, and it's a process. In other areas, perhaps we are further along.Lastly, my reflection shows me this as essential, that my friend and I trip each other up by bringing our enthusiasm very strongly, and the other person doesn't meet it right the first time. It takes us reflection to meet it correctly. If our goal is to learn as much as possible, then our opposite natures are the best possible way to accelerate that process, because we do not automatically come to harmony. We have to do it consciously. So every step is a learning. I find that I bring my enthusiasm each time without really expecting that he could have a hard time with it. I'm kind of surprised each time, and that is why I get sour. So I noticed that I bring a kind of fresh ignorance forward. In life it is often that we quickly learn to shut down in a certain direction. And that hasn't happened for us. That's essentially this new thought.[/spoiler]I find it incredibly hard to look at the fact that I can see something in life and say: it's the most important thing; but then see how insufficient attention I am able to give to working towards solving the most important thing. So you'll find in this email the thought that, bringing consciousness to my unconsciousness is the most important thing that I can do, if I want to be able to make a contribution to the world that doesn't arise out of my unconscious errors. Since I see that inner work is needing to be done first, I am trying to focus on that. Getting up the strength to do this with my current commitment, this has taken 50 years.In a way, I experienced that your advice to us is this: Why don't you play another game, or with someone else, where you won't have to change so much in order to have fun, or get along, etc. I raise this question: if everyone steps away when things get difficult, when will people learn how to stop fighting?Your posts have been very interesting for me. I may not be doing with it what you expect, but thanks. Really. You've given the most unique contribution yet. And in reality it's the closest one so far to my way of working.</blockquote>

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