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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 398052" data-attributes="member: 5171">For the record, Thulsa, I defended you on banned spells.  If you don't think you can handle them, it's perfectly fair to have them not exist.  It's also nice if you can work them in once you CAN handle them.Heck, for my money, the most unbalancing spell in the game is Haste.  But I digress...I'd like to hear your opinion on the number of PC deaths.  Heck, what I'd LOVE is a breakdown:(x) deaths caused by instakills or helpless defenders.  This would include traps with "Save or Die" spells, supernatural abilities that paralyze victims, an Iron Golem's poisonous breath, or anything else that bypasses hit points to take someone out of the fight and leave them helpless.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(y)" title="Thumbs up    (y)"  data-smilie="22"data-shortname="(y)" /> deaths caused by hit point exhaustion. This would include monsters that deal massive amounts of damage very quickly, like earth elementals, iron golem slam attacks, or dragons.'(a) deaths in "fair fights", by monsters whose CR was roughly equal to the average party level(b) deaths in "easy fights", by monsters or traps that only killed someone by freakish mischance (c) deaths in "hard fights", by monsters or traps with a CR higher than the average party levelIf you have a lot of deaths due to:XA: These deaths are most often due to players being poorly prepared.  Not having protection spells up, not having protective items that raise saves, not having Dispels handy to get rid of paralyzing or polymorphing, etc.  This pretty much goes to wealth per level, in my book.YA: Wealth, and not having enough time to rest between encounters.XB: These shouldn't be happening except by freakish mischance.  If the DM overcompensates for a monster that is "too easy" for the players by making an environment that favors the monster, the CR needs to be adjusted. Many XBs are XAs in disguise -- it's only a basilisk, but the party can't hit it because it's on a ledge, or it drank from "the displacement lake" or something.  And the DM doesn't give the experience that these encounters merit.YB: This should rarely if ever happen, unless the DM is making it hard to rest or restricting curative devices like wands or potions. A 9th level party should not have people killed by minotaurs without class levels.  Again, the overcompensation deal -- giving the minotaurs magical axes too large for the party to take as treasure in order to "make it more challenging", when the whole point of that encounter was to be an easy one for the PCs.XC: You're not warning your party enough. A 9th level party shouldn't go in against a beholder without SOME warning of what they're going to be fighting, unless you're going for a TPK.YC: These are the encounters that the party can win, but only by using a lot of their items -- the cleric who uses 12 charges on his wand of Cure Serious Wounds by healing the party fighter EVERY ROUND during the fight, or the Rogue who drinks 5 potions of invisibility over the course of the combat.  Parties can win these fights, but only if they have enough disposable items.Dunno if the hit-point/instakill distinction really helps.  It made me kind of realize my shortcomings as a DM, though.  All my deaths have come from things just doing hit point damage.  I don't give out enough disposable items to keep people up and about for long enough during those ugly Melee Slugfests.  However, my party has GREAT collective saves, and is rarely in danger from Instakill effects.I guess you could get even more distinctive, and take it to:Death due to an Instakill effect or helplessness-inducing effectDeath due to hit point damage from attacksDeath due to hit point damage from energy or area effectsBut that probably would cease to be useful.Also note: I'm deliberately leaving out "Player was Stupid" as a possibility.  If these are canny players, they probably weren't stupid from their point of view.  It's easy for the DM to be snide and deride the "idiot players" for not realizing that the magical gem on the altar had a trap on it that consisted of being trapped in a wall-of-force cage, fireballed ten times, hit by Evard's Black Tentacles, and then slapped with a Stinking Cloud of infinite duration that doesn't dissipate because of the Walls of Force, while summoned halfling-sized Iron Golems punch the party with spiked fists laced with Poison that does Con damage.-Tacky</blockquote>

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