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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Enkhidu" data-source="post: 410299" data-attributes="member: 351">A ha!It seems to me that the 3rd Ed CR system as struck again!Thulsa may actually be using the encounters in RttToEE correctly to challenge an experienced (and this group seems to be so with several years of gaming under their belts) bunch of players, as long as the characters' levels reflected the power level assumed by the CR system that Monte used to create these encounters.And that's the key. Monte used standard CRs and the assumption of standard power levels when setting up these encounters. And as anyone who has gone through the 3rd Ed changeover has come to find out, those standard CRs are inextricably tied to the wealth that a character is supposed to have in the form of magic and magic itmes.In my experience, all characters, (especially fighters and fighter types), need magic in order to maintain the power level assumed in the game after about 3rd or 4th level. Wizards are not necessarily as dependent on this, which is one of the reasons that Ormraxes hasn't kicked the bucket yet. But the fact remains that magic is built into the system.So how do you fix this? Easy.If you want to give starting characters of higher level less wealth to start with, that's more than fine (in fact, I like it). If you want to ban spells that could be disruptive to the campaign, that's fine too (I certainly advocate it). But remember to think of your player's characters as being a few levels lower than they really are if you do.Example, A 12th level fighter without any magic (say only yhe 1500 gold you would give him to start) is about the same power level as a fighter of 9th level with all the magic items a character of that level would have in a default D&D game. That's a big difference, and if it holds true across the board (actually, I've seen it be about 2 levels, average), then a 12th level party with little or no magic (regardless of how that came to be) is really more like a level 9 or 10 party. So, regardless of how they lost magic, or don't start out with magic, etc, don't be afraid to adjust encounters accordingly.Also, since you are a longtime 2nd Ed DM, I will direct you to a great example of this principle - the 1st Ed module A4 (the end of the Slave Lord's series) has a section that pits characters with no equipment against challenges appropriate to their power level. Because it's 1st Ed, you should be able to exrapolate very easily (1st and 2nd Ed were just not all that different at the core). And, if you'd like, you can find a 3rd Ed conversion of that module in the ENWorld archives to give you an idea of what CR's to throw.Hope that helps the situation!</blockquote>

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