Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
ShortQuests -- Pocket Sized Adventures! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed for 1-2 game sessions.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 1085574" data-attributes="member: 9410">The Ranger and Rogue have both been weakened by 3.5's Hide rules.  It used to be that you could Hide by dressing to blend in, moving only when unobserved, and "fooling the eye" when you were being observed.  Now, camouflage is a 13th level ability, and only the Ranger can have it!  In a typical dungeon, with straight 10' corridors, the Rogue can no longer sneak ahead, hiding, and backstab at need!And STILL magical Invisibility is too good...  DC:20 to Spot invisibles, and even then, you don't know what you saw (Huh?), or where it was!  (So HOW did you "Spot" them, again?)The effects of this is that, for two Perceptive/Stealthy characters with equal stats and maxed out skills, of the same level, the Perceptive PC will be unable to detect the Invisible PC until at least... 17th level (excluding magic items).  That seems unfair, to me.  Even with the Alertness Feat and Eyes of the Eagle, you have to be 10th level to have a chance.  And Blind-fight?  Fuhgeddabouddit!  It only affects your miss chance, once you know where the Invisible is.10th-level Rogue with 14 WIS and Spot Maxed out: +1510th-level Rogue with 14 DEX and Hide maxed out: +15DC to spot static hider: 55 + 1D20DC to discern location of static hider: 75 + 1D20DC to spot hider moving half-speed: 35 + 1D20DC to discern location: 55 + 1D20Spotter's maximum possible roll, unaided: 35Spotter's maximum possible roll with +5 WIS bonus item, Eyes of the Eagle, Alertness and Skill Focus: Spot Feats: 50Even if the Hider rolls a 1, the unaided spotter who rolls a 20 can never even notice that the hider is there, and even an incredibly-gifted and magically-aided one cannot discern his location!Nope, +20 to Hide AND having to beat the DC by 20+ is just TOO outta-whack Overkill!  Beating the +20 DC should give you the exact location!...Shucks, in 1e, invisible opponents could be attacked at a mere -4!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

Verification