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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Seramus" data-source="post: 9745373" data-attributes="member: 6812658">Yeah, we found some classes interacted rather smoothly with the action economy, because they had minimal need for secondary actions. But the prevailing sentiment at my table, after the initial novelty and awe wore off, was... mild irritation. Part of this is my fault because I often include secondary objectives in combat challenges, so there is sometimes some climbing, button or lever pressing, jumping over obstacles, etc. Nothing like American Ninja Warrior, but more than white rooms.It became a running gag at first how often a couple of players had to re-grip their weapons, then a dull realization set in that they didn't want to engage with the environment in fun and interesting ways because it would take so many actions. This often took the form of 1) Do fun thing 2) Regrip Weapon 3) Uh... not enough actions to run over AND smack someone. And they weren't even angry about it, just kind of blech.There was even a discussion that went like (paraphrasing) "Why not just use a 1H weapon?" to which another player joked (again, paraphrasing) "Why not just drop the Grip action and let people have fun with big swords?"Oh yeah, there is no doubt that the math is so tight that every +1 is genuinely impactful, and getting a couple of them to stack can result in some major swings even in more narrative areas like winning conversations to convince the King to give you aid. That's why it really is just a personal bias and not a condemnation of the system. As a player, I'm just personally inclined to want to use something like an Infiltrator's Elixir to change our faces and give us more strategic options than something like a Silvertongue Mutagen whose primary function is to give you +X on skill checks.As for dropping the +1/+5 ladder, that's absolutely something I've considered doing. When I'm GM'ing, I can easily account for these differences in enemy stats when designing encounters, easy peasy. So it's an option in my pocket for the future. Though I'm far more inclined to pick a less restrictive system like Daggerheart to run these days. In fact, I literally went from running a PF2E game to testing out Daggerheart, got into the first combat, and was like "You can drink a potion, draw your weapons, and still just get on with your action? Holy crap!"</blockquote>

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