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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5183355" data-attributes="member: 4937">I believe that is where you go wrong.&nbsp; You are making assumptions about the composition, play-style, and inclinations of players and groups that are probably based on your own experience.My experience is atypical for the hobby I think because it is based on having moved a lot over the course of my life, searching for and finding or even creating play groups a half-dozen times and playing with a dozen or more groups.&nbsp; In my experience, about half the groups and players out there either explicitly play (chaotic) evil as their preferred alignment or else play games where alignment is downplayed or deprecated, but were it not, would be described as chaotic evil.&nbsp; In fact, I've also seen at least two attempts at campaigns die in the first session because the DM said, &quot;Make characters&quot;, and half the players showed up with evil characters and the other half with heroic ones.&nbsp; The problem you immediately run into is that these characters have absolutely no reason to be working together, as well as the fact that the players tend to realize that they don't have enough in common with the other players to actually form a group.In point of fact, I've observed this situation often enough that I could give out a questionairre about the players preferred style of play, and I'd lay money that I'd be able to pick out ahead of time with very minimal knowledge which players would pick playing villains in a world where everything is shades of grey/black, and which prefer playing heroes in a world of clear black and white.So, unless you are willing to label whole classes of people 'asshats' for how they play a game (which I know is a popular pasttime here at EnWorld) you are going to need a different explanation.&nbsp; And in any event, at the very least, allow me to suggest that this explanation is not a particularly useful one to the OP.Why would I have guessed that unless I had some particularly sterotyped view of how 'mature' players play the game?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5183355, member: 4937"] I believe that is where you go wrong. You are making assumptions about the composition, play-style, and inclinations of players and groups that are probably based on your own experience. My experience is atypical for the hobby I think because it is based on having moved a lot over the course of my life, searching for and finding or even creating play groups a half-dozen times and playing with a dozen or more groups. In my experience, about half the groups and players out there either explicitly play (chaotic) evil as their preferred alignment or else play games where alignment is downplayed or deprecated, but were it not, would be described as chaotic evil. In fact, I've also seen at least two attempts at campaigns die in the first session because the DM said, "Make characters", and half the players showed up with evil characters and the other half with heroic ones. The problem you immediately run into is that these characters have absolutely no reason to be working together, as well as the fact that the players tend to realize that they don't have enough in common with the other players to actually form a group. In point of fact, I've observed this situation often enough that I could give out a questionairre about the players preferred style of play, and I'd lay money that I'd be able to pick out ahead of time with very minimal knowledge which players would pick playing villains in a world where everything is shades of grey/black, and which prefer playing heroes in a world of clear black and white. So, unless you are willing to label whole classes of people 'asshats' for how they play a game (which I know is a popular pasttime here at EnWorld) you are going to need a different explanation. And in any event, at the very least, allow me to suggest that this explanation is not a particularly useful one to the OP. Why would I have guessed that unless I had some particularly sterotyped view of how 'mature' players play the game? [/QUOTE]

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