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<blockquote data-quote="renau1g" data-source="post: 5183362" data-attributes="member: 54810">wow...1/2? I've played in quite a lot of groups myself and never seen it the &quot;default&quot; play-style. It's funny that you say that my viewpoint is wrong because it's based on my experiences, but your's is based on your own experiences, which is the very thing you just critized me for <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused&nbsp; &nbsp; :confused:"&nbsp; data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />&nbsp; My comment is that the OP has said &quot;So, I've played with this group of friends on many things, DnD 3.5 and 4e, card games, ect&quot; and therefore one could reasonably surmise that he is at least somewhat familiar with their playstyle correct? Therefore, if said DM was caught off-guard by the players actions one would then come to the conclusion that the group does not regularly play that way as otherwise the DM wouldn't get so upset they come onto a messaeg board to complain about it. I wouldn't call those groups who do play like this asshats as that's their version of fun so whatever floats your boat, however their DM likely goes in with eyes wide open and all that so they know what to expect. Way to read too much into my post though. However, I will put forth that D&amp;D, especially 4e is not defaulted to an evil group, heck you can't be Evil in LFR, so that's my basis for assuming that most 4e groups are not psychopathic CE individuals. The rules aren't great for it, PvP is really more who wins initiative (and who's the striker or wizard), I'm sure there's other systems out there that are a better fit for it. My point to the OP? I'd look for a new group if they aren't willing to work with you, if they are? Cool, but as you spent a lot of prep time getting ready for the game it's not cool.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="renau1g, post: 5183362, member: 54810"] wow...1/2? I've played in quite a lot of groups myself and never seen it the "default" play-style. It's funny that you say that my viewpoint is wrong because it's based on my experiences, but your's is based on your own experiences, which is the very thing you just critized me for :confused: My comment is that the OP has said "So, I've played with this group of friends on many things, DnD 3.5 and 4e, card games, ect" and therefore one could reasonably surmise that he is at least somewhat familiar with their playstyle correct? Therefore, if said DM was caught off-guard by the players actions one would then come to the conclusion that the group does [B]not[/B] regularly play that way as otherwise the DM wouldn't get so upset they come onto a messaeg board to complain about it. I wouldn't call those groups who [I]do[/I] play like this asshats as that's their version of fun so whatever floats your boat, however their DM likely goes in with eyes wide open and all that so they know what to expect. Way to read too much into my post though. However, I will put forth that D&D, especially 4e is not defaulted to an evil group, heck you can't be Evil in LFR, so that's my basis for assuming that most 4e groups are not psychopathic CE individuals. The rules aren't great for it, PvP is really more who wins initiative (and who's the striker or wizard), I'm sure there's other systems out there that are a better fit for it. My point to the OP? I'd look for a new group if they aren't willing to work with you, if they are? Cool, but as you spent a lot of prep time getting ready for the game it's not cool. [/QUOTE]

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