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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 7269411">I submit that you have your position backwards: that orcs have classically held the place of demons.&nbsp; As far as &quot;standard D&amp;D setup&quot; goes that's a weak argument.&nbsp; Since I can't think of an official campaign in recent years (lets say, the last decade) where orcs were innately evil.&nbsp; As bad guys?&nbsp; As bad guys whose motivations we never analyzed?&nbsp; Sure.&nbsp; I don't think that's the same as saying they're born evil though.Of course there's no accounting for taste.&nbsp; And certainly someone could draw the line elsewhere.&nbsp; In none of my statements have I not prefaced my comments with &quot;I think...&quot; or &quot;IMO...&quot; or &quot;My preference is...&quot;My orcs are not innately evil because I find it more interesting for them not to be.&nbsp; It makes more sense to me that a mortal race, requiring food, rest, companionship and all the other functions of the flesh would have rationalized motivations for seeking the things they need, just like anyone else.&nbsp; Immortal races that do not require food (or require vast quantities or unique foods) do not require rest or companionship therefore do not play by the same rules.&nbsp; They have no needs driving their actions, only wants.&nbsp; Orcs may do what is perceived as evil only because their goals, values and needs conflict with ours.&nbsp; In case you were asking, IMO:Giants aren't innately evil for the same reason, they're just big humanoids.Undead are by-and-large non-sentient.&nbsp; The few that are (and I stress few) are usually created via black magic that corrupts the mind/body/soul.&nbsp; Some undead may fight against this, but the &quot;cure&quot; for their corruption is usually final death.Dragons walk the line because they are nearly immortal, but have all the same physical needs as a mortal, just 100 fold.&nbsp; Dragons gravitate toward ideological extremes as they age.&nbsp; As their perspective disconnects from mortality.&nbsp; I've already gone through and addressed this with all the races in my setting.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 7269411"] I submit that you have your position backwards: that orcs have [I]classically[/I] held the place of demons. As far as "standard D&D setup" goes that's a weak argument. Since I can't think of an official campaign in recent years (lets say, the last decade) where orcs were innately evil. As bad guys? As bad guys whose motivations we never analyzed? Sure. I don't think that's the same as saying they're born evil though. Of course there's no accounting for taste. And certainly someone [I]could[/I] draw the line elsewhere. In none of my statements have I not prefaced my comments with "I think..." or "IMO..." or "My preference is..." My orcs are not innately evil because I find it more interesting for them not to be. It makes more sense to me that a mortal race, requiring food, rest, companionship and all the other functions of the flesh would have rationalized motivations for seeking the things they need, just like anyone else. Immortal races that do not require food (or require vast quantities or unique foods) do not require rest or companionship therefore do not play by the same rules. They have no [I]needs[/I] driving their actions, only [I]wants[/I]. Orcs may do what is perceived as evil only because their goals, values and needs conflict with ours. In case you were asking, IMO: Giants aren't innately evil for the same reason, they're just big humanoids. Undead are by-and-large non-sentient. The few that are (and I stress few) are usually created via black magic that corrupts the mind/body/soul. Some undead may fight against this, but the "cure" for their corruption is usually final death. Dragons walk the line because they are nearly immortal, but have all the same physical needs as a mortal, just 100 fold. Dragons gravitate toward ideological extremes as they age. As their perspective disconnects from mortality. I've already gone through and addressed this with all the races in my setting. [/QUOTE]

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