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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 7269721">I think that's fine for specific setting lore, but I don't think it works well with a more generalized system-game like D&D.  To point back upwards at how 13th Age, which uses a specific setting addresses orcs, I think that's fine in a microcosm.  I don't think it's appropriate for larger more "kitchen sink" games like D&D though.  Larger system-games should always err on the general, and allow the DM to get more specific.I'm not going to speculate on the origin of the word.  Arguing to "the definition of the word" is a poor argument, especially when something has undergone many permutations to reach the point it is at now.I never suggested any method was wrong, merely that there are certain methods I don't like.  I like more nuanced games and I'm more than happy to have humans fight humans.I have no problem with what 5E says about orcs.  I think being created by an evil deity, or even naturally-born and worshipping an evil deity are great motivations for conflict between two people's.  I get that some people want to play a game where they go out and stomp some orcs, that's their preference, it's not mine.  That's all I was saying.I don't know honestly, it wouldn't surprise me.  I played very little of the original RTS games.  I would agree they are modeled after the Tolkein orcs as well.  You get tortured by an evil overlord with dark magic long enough, it's gonna screw you up.  Maybe the orcs of Mordor are irredeemable, but at least we can argue that they are irredeemable not because of some "born evil" element, but because of the hand of an evil overlord.I'm going to respond to this once, and only once.  I'm not sure if you're talking to me, but since I'm the only one you quoted and you appear to be using "you" in a singular sense, I can only assume as much.  So far I have taken part in a reasonable discussion among people who have differing views on how orcs could be innately evil or how orcs could not be innately evil.  I have found this discussion to be level-headed and non-accusatory until now.So I'm not sure if you are speaking to someone else or speaking to be, since I have at no point expressed that I find the concept of "innately evil orcs" to be appealing.  Further, accusing me of having psychopathic tendencies is WAY out of line and I highly suggest you either re-read my post and my positions or explain exactly to whom you were speaking if not to me.  In either case, should any further responses accuse me or others of being psychopaths you will be ignored and reported as appropriate.</blockquote>

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