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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8726352" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, I actually encountered a social combat system in recent years, and kind of fell in love with the idea. Now, I don't think it would work in DnD as written, because my friend was designing his game from the ground up to include these concepts. DnD doesn't work like this, and so it would need to be a sub-system at best. Now, before we get into arguing the exact mechanics, I think it is more important to talk about two things. 1) The goal of the system2) When to execute it. And the biggest thing I think gets missed or messed up when people make social combat systems is that they try and make the system and assume that point #2 is "Always". But, this is the biggest difference between combat combat and social combat. If you have a party of level 15 adventurers walking down a wooded path, and you have three completely normal goblins jump out of cover and attack the party... well, most of us wouldn't have those goblins even exist, and those who do wouldn't bother to have the party roll for initiative. Those goblins are defeated and the party loses no significant resources in the process. We do not want unimportant combats. But we do want unimportant social interactions. If those PCs then get to a fort and the guard refuses them entry and demands to know who they are... we don't want to skip this. Even if there is no question the PCs are going to get in, this is part of the glue that holds the game together. And, frankly, this guard isn't going to be worth pulling out the social combat system for, the standard rolling is perfectly fine for this scenario. So, when do we want to use this system after we make it? The best use of my friend's system came when I was running one of his Demo's for a con. The game is set in mythical Japan and so concepts such as losing face from being visibly upset were things he wanted to emphasize. The players had been tasked with determining the origin of a Void creature which had been terrorizing the city, but while they had some evidence that a particular government official was involved, it wasn't enough to bring to the Daimyo. And they were running out of time. So, they decided to confront the noble to try and get him to confess. They rolled a social skill check, as we had been doing the entire night because we were using the simplified rules for the demo... and they failed. But they were frustrated with this failure. They KNEW it was him, but obviously you can't just keep rerolling the dice til you succeed. And this is when I brought up the system. I'd let them take their first attempt as a failed first strike, and we'd go into a social combat. If they lost, then they lost, they would be shamed for accusing the noble, and they wouldn't achieve their goals. But if they succeeded.... then they basically would have argued their way into a success via the different methods available to them. And this is when I think a social combat system shines. This is the "dramatic scene" moment where the argument happens and we zoom in on the clash of wills. And, actually, DnD has a system that we can use to model this with some very simple changes. Skill Challenges. Take the base idea of the mechanics of a skill challenge. The players can roll any skill they want, if they can justify it, to apply to the challenge. But instead of the success/failure resolution, figure out a hit point system. Maybe allow a character to have hp equal to their level + a multiple of their Charisma or Wisdom Modifier. Then you can have "damage" done by looking at the modifier of the skill. Insight could be used to set an interlocutor up for a more devastating blow, giving them vulnerability to the next players "attack", defenses could be based on proficiency or raw stats. The math of how to set up HP and skills for attacking and damage is utterly mutable, but the key point is that both sides need to have HP and the ability to attack and defend, and everyone has to agree to the resolution of the combat. And what this allows for is more in-depth adjudication of those dramatic RP scenes we like, giving everyone more chances to participate. Meanwhile, the main system remains in place and is still used to 90% of the circumstances. I've meant to build something like this for ages, just never sat down to hammer it out.</blockquote>

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