Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"I roll Persuasion."
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8726894" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Ok... do you intend to provide that at some point?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What does that sentence even mean? Can you provide an example of relatively weak compulsion?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No it's not. I wrote a three page essay just in this thread on why it is not easy to address by codification. If you would care to refute that with an equal level of close analysis, I'm all for it, but claiming that there exists some codification of a social system that doesn't heavily rely on DM fiat requires some actual counter examples.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Do you know how many RPG rules sets I read through in the early '00's looking for this very thing? It doesn't exist. The example of how broken Exalted is introduced earlier is a good example of that. </p><p></p><p>A rules engine capable of codifying human social interaction to the degree that it would conform to expectations in a casually realistic manner would be also passing the Turing test. That's the level of complexity required. Asserting that "many other RPGs do it" without naming a single one when the problem is currently beyond human understanding just feels like you don't understand the problem. </p><p></p><p>If you look at any system that is trying hard here to fairly model things, it's going offer GMs broad guidelines for setting difficulty and stakes or for matching difficulty to stakes according to circumstance which are so broad that they override fortune in the test completely. And guidelines for GMs setting difficulty like that are going to amount to GM fiat. They might be GM fiat that can be reasonably justified, like assigning a value for the preexisting closeness, affection and trust of the relationship in a way that can be justified, but they will still ultimately depend on GM fiat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8726894, member: 4937"] Ok... do you intend to provide that at some point? What does that sentence even mean? Can you provide an example of relatively weak compulsion? No it's not. I wrote a three page essay just in this thread on why it is not easy to address by codification. If you would care to refute that with an equal level of close analysis, I'm all for it, but claiming that there exists some codification of a social system that doesn't heavily rely on DM fiat requires some actual counter examples. Do you know how many RPG rules sets I read through in the early '00's looking for this very thing? It doesn't exist. The example of how broken Exalted is introduced earlier is a good example of that. A rules engine capable of codifying human social interaction to the degree that it would conform to expectations in a casually realistic manner would be also passing the Turing test. That's the level of complexity required. Asserting that "many other RPGs do it" without naming a single one when the problem is currently beyond human understanding just feels like you don't understand the problem. If you look at any system that is trying hard here to fairly model things, it's going offer GMs broad guidelines for setting difficulty and stakes or for matching difficulty to stakes according to circumstance which are so broad that they override fortune in the test completely. And guidelines for GMs setting difficulty like that are going to amount to GM fiat. They might be GM fiat that can be reasonably justified, like assigning a value for the preexisting closeness, affection and trust of the relationship in a way that can be justified, but they will still ultimately depend on GM fiat. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"I roll Persuasion."
Top