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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8727742" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Sure, but Disease rules exist in DnD. You character could get Mummy Rot, or Cackle Fever, or whatever Otyughs give you. And if you make a more robust disease rule set, no one is going to say "But diseases aren't that dangerous in the real world, I got the flu once and it wasn't so bad, my character could totally continue no matter what disease they get!" So why is it when we try to make a more robust system intentionally meant for the PLAYER CHARACTERS to bull-headedly convince someone else of something through social combat, but maybe with consequences IF THEY FAIL, we are constantly being berated by how Persuasion isn't mind control and you can never convince the PCs to ever do something against their will except by magic? If your position is that you don't think it would be fun to have a social combat system where PCs can force NPCs into specific actions, but failing to do so has consequences, then fine. You don't think it would be fun, no problem. But persuasion is something people seem to treat like it is nothing with any power, when it is the most fundamentally powerful thing in society beyond pure violence.</blockquote>