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<blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 3789744" data-attributes="member: 1003">Hogwash.Exactly.&nbsp; This is why your above comment is hogwash. To use the 4e-isms, a party without Defenders will get crushed by a melee onslaught.&nbsp; A party without Controllers will never be able to bring their power to bear.And what, in 4e, suggests any of the above will be different?&nbsp; I've been following the news as closely as anyone (except Glyfair), and as far as I can tell the above will be 100% true in 4e too.Yeah, it's called &quot;roles&quot;.&nbsp; There's no class in 4e that can do everything.&nbsp; The whole point of the &quot;roles&quot; idea is just to make sure that every class has a clear place in the party; not that he can live without all of the others.&nbsp; There's no role titled &quot;superman.&quot;Now you're just looking for things to complain about. There's simply no way you can have an&nbsp; informed opinions on this matter.Fair point. Things change. This is the way of the world.Because the underlying mechanics are better.&nbsp; That's why I ran Dragonlance using d20, and later converted a Dragonlance campaign to Grim Tales.&nbsp; It's why I am a player in an Iron Heroes campaign that takes place in Waterdeep.&nbsp; 3.x is simply better than AD&amp;D, mechanically.&nbsp; I expect 4e will be better too. You can strip down the flavor and replace it with your own, and this saves you all of the work and effort of coming up with the underlying game engine (by far the harder part).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Irda Ranger, post: 3789744, member: 1003"] Hogwash. Exactly. This is why your above comment is hogwash. To use the 4e-isms, a party without Defenders will get crushed by a melee onslaught. A party without Controllers will never be able to bring their power to bear. And what, in 4e, suggests any of the above will be different? I've been following the news as closely as anyone (except Glyfair), and as far as I can tell the above will be 100% true in 4e too. Yeah, it's called "roles". There's no class in 4e that can do everything. The whole point of the "roles" idea is just to make sure that every class has a clear place in the party; not that he can live without all of the others. There's no role titled "superman." Now you're just looking for things to complain about. There's simply no way you can have an informed opinions on this matter. Fair point. Things change. This is the way of the world. Because the underlying mechanics are better. That's why I ran Dragonlance using d20, and later converted a Dragonlance campaign to Grim Tales. It's why I am a player in an Iron Heroes campaign that takes place in Waterdeep. 3.x is simply better than AD&D, mechanically. I expect 4e will be better too. You can strip down the flavor and replace it with your own, and this saves you all of the work and effort of coming up with the underlying game engine (by far the harder part). [/QUOTE]

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