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I think I know how the morality clause acceptable(+)
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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8911159" data-attributes="member: 6778210"><p>This entire tangent is meaningless and I just have no interest in engaging with it. It is just not addressing anything we are talkinga bout.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll point out that Britain changed leadership because of this, but it's an accurate comparison: taking a liar at their word and giving up because it's not <em>you</em> getting hurt.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We all agreed to stand up <em><strong>now</strong></em> and we largely have agreed to <strong><em>continue standing up</em></strong>, and yet here you and others are, telling us that we should just accept this (a terrible deal) and make sure to fight hard if they do it again.</p><p></p><p>You have no cache to make such a proposal. You are the one who is giving up first. Why would I trust your ability to actually step up and push back when you have immediately given up and are actively defending perhaps the worst aspect of the whole deal? Your words here have little weight because they don't reflect your current actions. Talking about how "we" can do this again misses that you aren't part of the we, you are the one who is actively trying to deal when many of us are standing firm.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this is a good reason as to why people really don't take your whole "We can stop them if this happens again": you've changed your position multiple times.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And I think, having read most of the conversations on here and elsewhere, that you'd probably be very wrong. We might have some different lines, but I think there would be some that are pretty common.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">No touching 1.0a unless it is to make it completely irrevocable</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">No morality clause that allows them to unilaterally destroy someone's content</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A redoing of their VTT policy to not be harmful to other VTTs in the business.</li> </ul><p>Outside of yourself and a few others, these seem to be pretty popular and universal lines. They just aren't <em>your </em>lines. I would recognize the reality of the situation if I were you and realize that your position is the minority/fringe one, and that the vast majority seem to have a pretty consistent goal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't, but we all find humor in different things, I suppose.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, and that's why people don't want to listen to you. You're not consistent, you change your mind all the time. Saying that "Oh, we'll stand up next time!" is not reassuring when it's the guy who has changed his opinions multiple times and landed on "I, for one, welcome our new OGL 1.2 overlords!"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, when you flipflop on things that is a risk you take. It really depends on what and how you change your mind. I would say that the way you have done it, you have limited how many people take your opinion seriously. That's the nicest way I can put it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]273395[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is <strong><em>incredibly sad</em></strong>. I don't even know how you admit to that. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite10" alt=":oops:" title="Oops! :oops:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":oops:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This entire hypothetical is unnecessarily complex because we can literally just refer to the reality we are in and the situation currently at hand. We keep doing this and you keep getting into long, weird tangents instead of actually addressing what we are talking about.</p><p></p><p>The long and short is this: we are standing up because the deal right now is no deal, and that anything we currently gain (which is <strong><em>very little</em></strong>) can simply be taken away.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]273396[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>But more seriously, this is exactly it. We haven't won anything. WotC is still trying to play games and <em>thankfully </em>it looks like vast majority of the community is not falling for it. We need to continue on, comment and engage, but be aware that Wizbro will almost certainly try to hard-sell 1.2 after the "playtest".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 8911159, member: 6778210"] This entire tangent is meaningless and I just have no interest in engaging with it. It is just not addressing anything we are talkinga bout. I'll point out that Britain changed leadership because of this, but it's an accurate comparison: taking a liar at their word and giving up because it's not [I]you[/I] getting hurt. We all agreed to stand up [I][B]now[/B][/I] and we largely have agreed to [B][I]continue standing up[/I][/B], and yet here you and others are, telling us that we should just accept this (a terrible deal) and make sure to fight hard if they do it again. You have no cache to make such a proposal. You are the one who is giving up first. Why would I trust your ability to actually step up and push back when you have immediately given up and are actively defending perhaps the worst aspect of the whole deal? Your words here have little weight because they don't reflect your current actions. Talking about how "we" can do this again misses that you aren't part of the we, you are the one who is actively trying to deal when many of us are standing firm. And this is a good reason as to why people really don't take your whole "We can stop them if this happens again": you've changed your position multiple times. And I think, having read most of the conversations on here and elsewhere, that you'd probably be very wrong. We might have some different lines, but I think there would be some that are pretty common. [LIST] [*]No touching 1.0a unless it is to make it completely irrevocable [*]No morality clause that allows them to unilaterally destroy someone's content [*]A redoing of their VTT policy to not be harmful to other VTTs in the business. [/LIST] Outside of yourself and a few others, these seem to be pretty popular and universal lines. They just aren't [I]your [/I]lines. I would recognize the reality of the situation if I were you and realize that your position is the minority/fringe one, and that the vast majority seem to have a pretty consistent goal. I don't, but we all find humor in different things, I suppose. Yeah, and that's why people don't want to listen to you. You're not consistent, you change your mind all the time. Saying that "Oh, we'll stand up next time!" is not reassuring when it's the guy who has changed his opinions multiple times and landed on "I, for one, welcome our new OGL 1.2 overlords!" I mean, when you flipflop on things that is a risk you take. It really depends on what and how you change your mind. I would say that the way you have done it, you have limited how many people take your opinion seriously. That's the nicest way I can put it. [ATTACH type="full"]273395[/ATTACH] That is [B][I]incredibly sad[/I][/B]. I don't even know how you admit to that. :oops: This entire hypothetical is unnecessarily complex because we can literally just refer to the reality we are in and the situation currently at hand. We keep doing this and you keep getting into long, weird tangents instead of actually addressing what we are talking about. The long and short is this: we are standing up because the deal right now is no deal, and that anything we currently gain (which is [B][I]very little[/I][/B]) can simply be taken away. [ATTACH type="full"]273396[/ATTACH] But more seriously, this is exactly it. We haven't won anything. WotC is still trying to play games and [I]thankfully [/I]it looks like vast majority of the community is not falling for it. We need to continue on, comment and engage, but be aware that Wizbro will almost certainly try to hard-sell 1.2 after the "playtest". [/QUOTE]
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