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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 4940332" data-attributes="member: 19675">Someone (in another thread) mentioned an old rule that- while it may seem heavy-handed to people who picked up the game with 3Ed- has merit in this discussion's main digression.Bring back the spell-rarity rules.  IOW, instead of each player simply picking out which spells they want for their mages, embed the spell-selection process into the campaign.1) Instead of picking a spell and adding it to the PC's list, it must be learned.  This would probably mean a Spellcraft check.  (For the moment, I leave it to others to do the math.)2) You can only learn those spells you have access through mentors, organizations, and treasure (scrolls/spellbooks/tomes).3) Each spell has a rarity level that dictates how easy it is to learn.  Most spells in the PHB would be Common or Uncommon, with only a few Rare spells.  Most spells in generic supplement books or main Campaign setting books would be Uncommon to Rare.  Most spells in campaign supplement books would be Rare.Obviously, certain ones might have a rarity other than you might expect, depending on the nature of the spell.Overall, even with spellcasters maximizing Spellcraft, statistical odds and campaign forces would force diversity in spellbooks, derivative tactics, and overall prevent a mage (at least) from being the most optimized he can be.HOWEVER, this would also necessitate a change in DM behavior as well- namely, you would have to ensure that any situation in an adventure or campaign either has multiple solutions, or if a particular spell is the only way, it must be made available to the PCs in an in-campaign way.</blockquote>

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