Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I think the D&D experience system has a lot to do with my players being murder hobos.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Giant2005" data-source="post: 6836570" data-attributes="member: 6813615"><p>There are a couple of things which I think DnD does wrong that promotes the murder-hobo mentality.</p><p></p><p>1. Encounter balancing. Encounter balancing is absolutely bunk - those rules should be ignored completely. The fact that the rules convince the DMs to math out a perfectly balanced encounter ensures that everything the party comes up against, the party can defeat. That just encourages them to go ahead and defeat everything because they know they can win. More than that though, it is entirely unrealistic - not everything should be winnable and it should be up to the players to evaluate the risk before picking an otherwise avoidable fight.</p><p></p><p>2. Xp Rewards. DnD doesn't have any rules for granting xp, other than murdering everything in sight, so of course that is exactly what people will do. Sure the modules all tend to give rewards for other things, but unless you are running those modules, the players have no reason to believe that they will get reasonable amounts of xp for non-combat actions. Even worse is the fact that without guidelines on how to do so, most DMs simply won't give reasonable amounts of xp for non-combat actions.</p><p>The Palladium system has a great xp system that you can transplant over pretty seamlessly and it fixes that particular issue and has the added benefit of encouraging your players to become better roleplayers.</p><p>Although a couple of those xp rewards tend to assume you are playing a good campaign, so it may result in the opposite effect - your players might go from being murder-hobos to the equally annoying SJW-hobos.</p><p>Here are the xp reward values for the Palladium system if you are interested:</p><p></p><p><u>Combat </u></p><p><strong>Zero</strong> points for fighting that's just to show off, too proud to stand down, gets the rest of the group in trouble, or any stupid or selfish reasoning. </p><p><strong>25-50</strong> points for killing or subduing a minor menace. </p><p><strong>75-100</strong> points for killing or subduing a major menace. </p><p><strong>150-400</strong> points for killing or subduing a great menace. Additional Experience Points are likely.</p><p></p><p><u>Other Actions. Reasoning & Role-Playing </u></p><p><strong>10-25</strong> points for performing the right skill (successful or not), at the right time, for the right reason, for mid to high level characters (4th level and up), this might apply only to skills performed when they are absolutely critical or done under stressful conditions. </p><p><strong>25-50</strong> points for a clever, but futile idea. </p><p><strong>25-50</strong> points for using good judgment or one's power or skill well. </p><p><strong>25-50</strong> points for playing in character when it would have been easier not to. </p><p><strong>25-100</strong> points for a clever, useful/helpful idea or action. </p><p><strong>50-100</strong> points for avoiding unnecessary' violence; self-restraint or talking, bluffing or intimidating oneself (and associates) out of trouble or danger. </p><p><strong>50-100</strong> points for a small act of self-sacrifice, or an act of kindness, mercy, or compassion. </p><p><strong>50-100</strong> points for insightful and helpful deductive reasoning or keen observation. </p><p><strong>50-100</strong> points for a successful daring or heroic action (whether it was clever or not). </p><p><strong>75-150</strong> points for playing in character/playing one's alignment when circumstance or powerful temptation begged otherwise. </p><p><strong>100</strong> points for a quick thinking idea or action that was helpful. </p><p><strong>100-200</strong> points for insight or deductive reasoning that plays a huge role in a critical plan or saving lives. </p><p><strong>200</strong> points for a critical plan or action that saves the character's own life and/or a few comrades. </p><p><strong>400-1000</strong> points for a critical plan or action that saves the entire group and/or many innocent people. </p><p><strong>100-300</strong> points for endangering the character's own life (self-sacrifice) to help or save others. </p><p><strong>500-700</strong> points for a genuine life and death self-sacrifice in a situation where the character's heroism seemed likely (or almost certain) to cost him his life. Leaping in front of an energy blast meant for someone else to save that person, even though the blast is likely to kill the hero, or offering his/her own life to save the group or an innocent person (and the exchange truly seems to be a death sentence with no apparent chance for escape). Odds are that the character will really die!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Giant2005, post: 6836570, member: 6813615"] There are a couple of things which I think DnD does wrong that promotes the murder-hobo mentality. 1. Encounter balancing. Encounter balancing is absolutely bunk - those rules should be ignored completely. The fact that the rules convince the DMs to math out a perfectly balanced encounter ensures that everything the party comes up against, the party can defeat. That just encourages them to go ahead and defeat everything because they know they can win. More than that though, it is entirely unrealistic - not everything should be winnable and it should be up to the players to evaluate the risk before picking an otherwise avoidable fight. 2. Xp Rewards. DnD doesn't have any rules for granting xp, other than murdering everything in sight, so of course that is exactly what people will do. Sure the modules all tend to give rewards for other things, but unless you are running those modules, the players have no reason to believe that they will get reasonable amounts of xp for non-combat actions. Even worse is the fact that without guidelines on how to do so, most DMs simply won't give reasonable amounts of xp for non-combat actions. The Palladium system has a great xp system that you can transplant over pretty seamlessly and it fixes that particular issue and has the added benefit of encouraging your players to become better roleplayers. Although a couple of those xp rewards tend to assume you are playing a good campaign, so it may result in the opposite effect - your players might go from being murder-hobos to the equally annoying SJW-hobos. Here are the xp reward values for the Palladium system if you are interested: [U]Combat [/U] [B]Zero[/B] points for fighting that's just to show off, too proud to stand down, gets the rest of the group in trouble, or any stupid or selfish reasoning. [B]25-50[/B] points for killing or subduing a minor menace. [B]75-100[/B] points for killing or subduing a major menace. [B]150-400[/B] points for killing or subduing a great menace. Additional Experience Points are likely. [U]Other Actions. Reasoning & Role-Playing [/U] [B]10-25[/B] points for performing the right skill (successful or not), at the right time, for the right reason, for mid to high level characters (4th level and up), this might apply only to skills performed when they are absolutely critical or done under stressful conditions. [B]25-50[/B] points for a clever, but futile idea. [B]25-50[/B] points for using good judgment or one's power or skill well. [B]25-50[/B] points for playing in character when it would have been easier not to. [B]25-100[/B] points for a clever, useful/helpful idea or action. [B]50-100[/B] points for avoiding unnecessary' violence; self-restraint or talking, bluffing or intimidating oneself (and associates) out of trouble or danger. [B]50-100[/B] points for a small act of self-sacrifice, or an act of kindness, mercy, or compassion. [B]50-100[/B] points for insightful and helpful deductive reasoning or keen observation. [B]50-100[/B] points for a successful daring or heroic action (whether it was clever or not). [B]75-150[/B] points for playing in character/playing one's alignment when circumstance or powerful temptation begged otherwise. [B]100[/B] points for a quick thinking idea or action that was helpful. [B]100-200[/B] points for insight or deductive reasoning that plays a huge role in a critical plan or saving lives. [B]200[/B] points for a critical plan or action that saves the character's own life and/or a few comrades. [B]400-1000[/B] points for a critical plan or action that saves the entire group and/or many innocent people. [B]100-300[/B] points for endangering the character's own life (self-sacrifice) to help or save others. [B]500-700[/B] points for a genuine life and death self-sacrifice in a situation where the character's heroism seemed likely (or almost certain) to cost him his life. Leaping in front of an energy blast meant for someone else to save that person, even though the blast is likely to kill the hero, or offering his/her own life to save the group or an innocent person (and the exchange truly seems to be a death sentence with no apparent chance for escape). Odds are that the character will really die! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I think the D&D experience system has a lot to do with my players being murder hobos.
Top