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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6929053" data-attributes="member: 42582">I haven't reread all my posts upthread, but I think this is similar to the point I was making.In my experience, many RPGs reward the ability to engage in intricate PC building by making such characters more mechanically effective.I think the 4e archer-ranger is not an instance of this phenomenon - it is not really an ideal vehicle for intricacy of building, and it is quite effective without needing to engage in intricate building.Conversely - and putting to one side the issue of maths fixes (I assume you're referring to the Class Compendium revisions?) - the warlock needs intricate building and careful play to be mechanically effective.I think this is a good thing - the class that is clearly suited to intricacy should not be more powerful in virtue of such, but rather should require such to reach parity.I think intricacy is part of the balance equation, in the way I've described above.If a class that rewards intricacy is powerful even when someone who is bad at intricacy uses it, it will tend to be overpowered when someone who is good at intricacy uses it. (I'm thinking eg of a classic D&D magic-user above, say, 4th level; the comparable characters in Rolemaster; points-buy games in general; etc). Therefore the design goal should be that, if someone builds their character intricately they reach parity with the simple classes. Hence power-gamers/system-masters, who get the pleasure in building intricately, don't also get a mechanically more effective character.I guess there is then the danger of a trap - a player who isn't good at intricacy likes the flavour of (say) the warlock and thereby gets stuck with a sucky character - but I think that is the lesser evil than having a vehicle for overpoweredness. It just means that players who aren't good at intricacy should be pointed towards the archer ranger, and will easily achieve a character that is not sucky.</blockquote>

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