Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I think we can safely say that 5E is a success, but will it lead to a new Golden Era?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6357361" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>I would agree with you if the sales of the PHBs during their respective launch periods was the defining factor in the overall success of the edition. But it is not, imo. It is one factor among many, and probably not even the most important one. f it was it would be like saying a product is successful if the initial run sold out, even if people don't like it after six months. </p><p></p><p>By all accounts 4E initially sold well, I think even better than 3E as you say. But it also only lasted three and a half years and involved more controversy and edition warring than any other editions, so it can't be considered a long-term success. I mean there's a reason that it only lasted three and a half years - and we don't need to go into the virtues and flaws of the game itself to find an explanation. It simply wasn't embraced by the community as a whole; in other words, it wasn't a long-term success.</p><p></p><p>Smart companies want happy customers, not just lots of initial sales. Happy customers are <em>repeat</em> customers, while unhappy customers move on. During the tenure of 4E, a lot of WotC's customers moved on, which is why they decided to create a 5E that, they hope, will lead to happier customers and a revitalized community. But it all remains to be seen! My view is that he signs so far are promising.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Word-of-mouth is huge in the Information Age. Just ask Richard Gere about the gerbil! Evidently it was a teenager in the early 90s that started the rumor.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You seem to be equating "success" with finances alone. This may be fine with movies, but with RPGs it isn't so simple. A PHB of <em>any </em>edition will pretty much be guaranteed to sell a few hundred thousand copies, because there are a few hundred thousand serious gamers out there who want the latest version of D&D. But the key is A) Whether people beyond that core group will buy it, and B) how many of that core group (and others) will continue to buy.</p><p></p><p>If you're WotC you want to not only sell as many PHBs as possible in the initial launch, but both continue to sell PHBs (through increasing the fan-base) AND sell other products (through creating a strong, happy customer base). In a way, they want "subscribers," not just as many first issues sold as possible. I suppose the closest analogy in cinema is DVD sales, but even that has a limit. </p><p></p><p>I think perhaps a better analogy than film for D&D is a vegetable garden. If you're settling down and planting a garden you don't just want a quick yield of one or two vegetables. You want a garden that will continue to produce through the summer and fall, and then be ready for planting again in the spring (in other words, you want it to be able to weather the fallow time of winter and be prepared for a new season).</p><p></p><p>This illustrates the crucial difference between a sustainable and non-sustainable approach. Americans are used to the latter, which of course has led to all sorts of problems. But the trend is more and more towards sustainability, and we can hope that WotC is "hip to the times" and not just looking for a quick buck, but building a sustainable future. </p><p></p><p>In baseball this would be the difference between the non-sustainable approach of focusing on signing high priced free agents and always trying to "win now," vs. focusing on the farm system and building from within. It isn't either/or, but I think one does have to choose which approach to emphasize. I suppose my bias is clear!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 6357361, member: 59082"] I would agree with you if the sales of the PHBs during their respective launch periods was the defining factor in the overall success of the edition. But it is not, imo. It is one factor among many, and probably not even the most important one. f it was it would be like saying a product is successful if the initial run sold out, even if people don't like it after six months. By all accounts 4E initially sold well, I think even better than 3E as you say. But it also only lasted three and a half years and involved more controversy and edition warring than any other editions, so it can't be considered a long-term success. I mean there's a reason that it only lasted three and a half years - and we don't need to go into the virtues and flaws of the game itself to find an explanation. It simply wasn't embraced by the community as a whole; in other words, it wasn't a long-term success. Smart companies want happy customers, not just lots of initial sales. Happy customers are [I]repeat[/I] customers, while unhappy customers move on. During the tenure of 4E, a lot of WotC's customers moved on, which is why they decided to create a 5E that, they hope, will lead to happier customers and a revitalized community. But it all remains to be seen! My view is that he signs so far are promising. Word-of-mouth is huge in the Information Age. Just ask Richard Gere about the gerbil! Evidently it was a teenager in the early 90s that started the rumor. You seem to be equating "success" with finances alone. This may be fine with movies, but with RPGs it isn't so simple. A PHB of [I]any [/I]edition will pretty much be guaranteed to sell a few hundred thousand copies, because there are a few hundred thousand serious gamers out there who want the latest version of D&D. But the key is A) Whether people beyond that core group will buy it, and B) how many of that core group (and others) will continue to buy. If you're WotC you want to not only sell as many PHBs as possible in the initial launch, but both continue to sell PHBs (through increasing the fan-base) AND sell other products (through creating a strong, happy customer base). In a way, they want "subscribers," not just as many first issues sold as possible. I suppose the closest analogy in cinema is DVD sales, but even that has a limit. I think perhaps a better analogy than film for D&D is a vegetable garden. If you're settling down and planting a garden you don't just want a quick yield of one or two vegetables. You want a garden that will continue to produce through the summer and fall, and then be ready for planting again in the spring (in other words, you want it to be able to weather the fallow time of winter and be prepared for a new season). This illustrates the crucial difference between a sustainable and non-sustainable approach. Americans are used to the latter, which of course has led to all sorts of problems. But the trend is more and more towards sustainability, and we can hope that WotC is "hip to the times" and not just looking for a quick buck, but building a sustainable future. In baseball this would be the difference between the non-sustainable approach of focusing on signing high priced free agents and always trying to "win now," vs. focusing on the farm system and building from within. It isn't either/or, but I think one does have to choose which approach to emphasize. I suppose my bias is clear! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I think we can safely say that 5E is a success, but will it lead to a new Golden Era?
Top