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I think we can safely say that 5E is a success, but will it lead to a new Golden Era?
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<blockquote data-quote="Keldryn" data-source="post: 6361815" data-attributes="member: 11999"><p>I'm honestly surprised that the Expert Set's sales weren't higher, given the robust support which it received. I would guess that the Expert Set probably accounts for 350k to 400k of that figure, considering how long it takes to advance through the levels and the usual attrition over time.</p><p></p><p>There is a thread on Dragonsfoot where Tim Kask states that, in reference to his assertion that the '83 Basic Set (red box, Frank Mentzer) was the best-selling D&D product of all time:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The sales of Classic D&D vs AD&D also seem to have been different in the US vs internationally. The Basic and Expert sets appear to have been translated into more languages than were the AD&D books.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That isn't even remotely what I was arguing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Consider a kid or young teen who begins playing D&D with this:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]63592[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p>He loves the game and can't wait to play more, so he goes to the store to buy more D&D stuff. Looking through the large number of D&D products on the shelves, his most natural and logical next purchase is this:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]63593[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Not three books like this:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]63594[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p></p><p>You started with the original D&D Basic Set (Holmes, 1977), which was intended to introduce non-wargamers to D&D and then lead in to AD&D.</p><p></p><p>The second revision of the Basic Set (Moldvay, 1981) was designed to introduce non-wargamers to D&D and then lead into the Expert Set (Cook, 1981), which was released simultaneously. It was a complete game system that was more accessible and streamlined than AD&D. This version of D&D was deliberately positioned as a game where the action takes place in your imagination and not a board game nor a wargame.</p><p></p><p>I am going to refer to this version of D&D as "Classic D&D" from this point on. This term includes B/X, BECMI, and Rules Cyclopedia.</p><p></p><p>My entire purpose in bringing Classic D&D into the discussion was that this version of D&D is as much a part of 5e's lineage as is AD&D. While D&D had its origins in wargaming and these roots were still apparent in AD&D, by 1981 there was a complete game of D&D that intentionally dumped much of the wargaming baggage and was very playable in the "theater of the mind." This version of D&D remained in print (in one form or another) until 1996.</p><p></p><p>I then suggested that those of us who were introduced to D&D (and RPGs) through Classic D&D were probably more likely to view "theater of the mind" as the default style of play than were gamers who started with wargaming, OD&D, or AD&D 1e. Not a statement of fact, but an entirely reasonable hypothesis.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It was weird, and probably would have been better to just have a streamlined "starter set" that was provided a complete play experience on its own but directed players towards the AD&D books for more options and higher-level play.</p><p></p><p>Basic and Expert together made for a very complete, playable, and streamlined game for a long time (levels 1-14 for fighter, magic-user, cleric, thief, elf, dwarf, halfling). The addition of the Companion and Masters rules (plus rules like skills form the GAZ line) added a lot of complexity to the game, and the publication of AD&D 2e made AD&D accessible enough that the Classic D&D game (as a whole) started to become redundant.</p><p></p><p>Of course, the primary reason for keeping two separate lines going was the legal dispute with Dave Arneson.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Keldryn, post: 6361815, member: 11999"] I'm honestly surprised that the Expert Set's sales weren't higher, given the robust support which it received. I would guess that the Expert Set probably accounts for 350k to 400k of that figure, considering how long it takes to advance through the levels and the usual attrition over time. There is a thread on Dragonsfoot where Tim Kask states that, in reference to his assertion that the '83 Basic Set (red box, Frank Mentzer) was the best-selling D&D product of all time: The sales of Classic D&D vs AD&D also seem to have been different in the US vs internationally. The Basic and Expert sets appear to have been translated into more languages than were the AD&D books. That isn't even remotely what I was arguing. Consider a kid or young teen who begins playing D&D with this: [ATTACH=CONFIG]63592._xfImport[/ATTACH] He loves the game and can't wait to play more, so he goes to the store to buy more D&D stuff. Looking through the large number of D&D products on the shelves, his most natural and logical next purchase is this: [ATTACH=CONFIG]63593._xfImport[/ATTACH] Not three books like this: [ATTACH=CONFIG]63594._xfImport[/ATTACH] You started with the original D&D Basic Set (Holmes, 1977), which was intended to introduce non-wargamers to D&D and then lead in to AD&D. The second revision of the Basic Set (Moldvay, 1981) was designed to introduce non-wargamers to D&D and then lead into the Expert Set (Cook, 1981), which was released simultaneously. It was a complete game system that was more accessible and streamlined than AD&D. This version of D&D was deliberately positioned as a game where the action takes place in your imagination and not a board game nor a wargame. I am going to refer to this version of D&D as "Classic D&D" from this point on. This term includes B/X, BECMI, and Rules Cyclopedia. My entire purpose in bringing Classic D&D into the discussion was that this version of D&D is as much a part of 5e's lineage as is AD&D. While D&D had its origins in wargaming and these roots were still apparent in AD&D, by 1981 there was a complete game of D&D that intentionally dumped much of the wargaming baggage and was very playable in the "theater of the mind." This version of D&D remained in print (in one form or another) until 1996. I then suggested that those of us who were introduced to D&D (and RPGs) through Classic D&D were probably more likely to view "theater of the mind" as the default style of play than were gamers who started with wargaming, OD&D, or AD&D 1e. Not a statement of fact, but an entirely reasonable hypothesis. It was weird, and probably would have been better to just have a streamlined "starter set" that was provided a complete play experience on its own but directed players towards the AD&D books for more options and higher-level play. Basic and Expert together made for a very complete, playable, and streamlined game for a long time (levels 1-14 for fighter, magic-user, cleric, thief, elf, dwarf, halfling). The addition of the Companion and Masters rules (plus rules like skills form the GAZ line) added a lot of complexity to the game, and the publication of AD&D 2e made AD&D accessible enough that the Classic D&D game (as a whole) started to become redundant. Of course, the primary reason for keeping two separate lines going was the legal dispute with Dave Arneson. [/QUOTE]
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