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I think we can safely say that 5E is a success, but will it lead to a new Golden Era?
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<blockquote data-quote="Keldryn" data-source="post: 6361880" data-attributes="member: 11999"><p>I also prefer 4e to 3.x on the whole; after having DMed 4e, I would never DM 3.x again.</p><p></p><p>Where I think 4e was most frustrating for "system-tactics neophytes" was that as soon as you get beyond simply making attack and damage rolls, you're drinking from the fire hose. Even 1st-level powers and monsters are tossing around forced movement, triggered actions, opportunity actions, short-term conditions, short-term buffs/debuffs, temporary hit points, and the like. None of these concepts are difficult to understand on their own, but players need to learn all of them pretty quickly and they also need to learn how they interact with one another.</p><p></p><p>On top of that, to really play the tactical game well, not only do you need to have a firm grasp of what your character can do, but you also need to know what all of the other players' characters can do as well.</p><p></p><p>Some players take to this naturally (especially experienced 3.x players). Others never seem to take to it because it feels more like work than play. Sure, you can select the most straightforward damage-causing powers for them and tell them in which order they should use their powers, but you're not exactly laying the groundwork for them to be really engaged in the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. I regret that I never had the opportunity to play 4e with a group composed entirely of dedicated and motivated players. I spent far more time and effort trying to help 3 out of 4 players get over that learning curve than I did actually preparing adventures.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is how 5e feels to me as well, for which I am extremely happy about.</p><p></p><p>4e was a very well-designed game. The core rules were very elegant and consistent, and the system as a whole was very well-balanced. The fiddly bits and deeper tactical elements could have been layered on top of this streamlined and balanced core, rather than baked right in from 1st level. </p><p></p><p>The simplest character in the PHB was probably the Ranger, but even that character had Hunter's Quarry, which was <em>almost</em> like saying "add 1d6 damage to the first target you hit on your turn," but couldn't quite be played that way because you needed to use your minor action to designate the target closest to you as your Quarry, once per turn. This kind of fiddliness permeated the entire game system, and it really didn't have to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, as long as you leave out <em>Load</em>, <em>Reload</em>, and <em>St. Anger</em>. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Keldryn, post: 6361880, member: 11999"] I also prefer 4e to 3.x on the whole; after having DMed 4e, I would never DM 3.x again. Where I think 4e was most frustrating for "system-tactics neophytes" was that as soon as you get beyond simply making attack and damage rolls, you're drinking from the fire hose. Even 1st-level powers and monsters are tossing around forced movement, triggered actions, opportunity actions, short-term conditions, short-term buffs/debuffs, temporary hit points, and the like. None of these concepts are difficult to understand on their own, but players need to learn all of them pretty quickly and they also need to learn how they interact with one another. On top of that, to really play the tactical game well, not only do you need to have a firm grasp of what your character can do, but you also need to know what all of the other players' characters can do as well. Some players take to this naturally (especially experienced 3.x players). Others never seem to take to it because it feels more like work than play. Sure, you can select the most straightforward damage-causing powers for them and tell them in which order they should use their powers, but you're not exactly laying the groundwork for them to be really engaged in the game. Yes. I regret that I never had the opportunity to play 4e with a group composed entirely of dedicated and motivated players. I spent far more time and effort trying to help 3 out of 4 players get over that learning curve than I did actually preparing adventures. This is how 5e feels to me as well, for which I am extremely happy about. 4e was a very well-designed game. The core rules were very elegant and consistent, and the system as a whole was very well-balanced. The fiddly bits and deeper tactical elements could have been layered on top of this streamlined and balanced core, rather than baked right in from 1st level. The simplest character in the PHB was probably the Ranger, but even that character had Hunter's Quarry, which was [I]almost[/I] like saying "add 1d6 damage to the first target you hit on your turn," but couldn't quite be played that way because you needed to use your minor action to designate the target closest to you as your Quarry, once per turn. This kind of fiddliness permeated the entire game system, and it really didn't have to. Yes, as long as you leave out [I]Load[/I], [I]Reload[/I], and [I]St. Anger[/I]. ;) [/QUOTE]
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