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I think we're done with 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="Plane Sailing" data-source="post: 4579861" data-attributes="member: 114"><p>These are some of the grindy aspects I see (I'm running for a party of 4th level characters)</p><p></p><p>These characters have one daily, two encounter powers and two at-wills. Most fights are lasting 8 or more rounds. The daily and the encounter powers pretty much only count for 3 of those rounds (and they don't always want to use the daily); also with about a 50% chance of hitting we tend to get half a daily and one encounter attack hitting. This in itself is rarely enough to bloody an enemy and suddenly we are down to basically using at-wills for everything else.</p><p></p><p>The grindy aspect then becomes (for me) not so much that "we are going to win the fight but we just have to scrub off their remaining hit points" as "We only get to do 1-3 really interesting tricks before settling down to the at-will powers". Bull rush is so ineffective that it is rarely attempted (the max 1 square moved aspect of it). Fighters are so effective at tying people down and removing their mobility that fights involving fighters stagnate unless there is a teleporter involved.</p><p></p><p>3e had combats that zipped through too quickly, so monsters didn't get the chance to use all their powers. 4e has reduced the number of powers they have but also reduced the hit rate against them and improved their hit points. The damage that the monsters do remains pretty small too, relative to PC hit points. The end result means that I'm seeing combats which continue much longer, but which get a bit 'draggy' on both sides.</p><p></p><p>if the PCs are all above bloodied and the bad guys are all bloodied, it is very likely that the PCs will beat them simply on attrition (people have similar chances to hit and do similar damage) but it takes... time...</p><p></p><p>Cheers</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Plane Sailing, post: 4579861, member: 114"] These are some of the grindy aspects I see (I'm running for a party of 4th level characters) These characters have one daily, two encounter powers and two at-wills. Most fights are lasting 8 or more rounds. The daily and the encounter powers pretty much only count for 3 of those rounds (and they don't always want to use the daily); also with about a 50% chance of hitting we tend to get half a daily and one encounter attack hitting. This in itself is rarely enough to bloody an enemy and suddenly we are down to basically using at-wills for everything else. The grindy aspect then becomes (for me) not so much that "we are going to win the fight but we just have to scrub off their remaining hit points" as "We only get to do 1-3 really interesting tricks before settling down to the at-will powers". Bull rush is so ineffective that it is rarely attempted (the max 1 square moved aspect of it). Fighters are so effective at tying people down and removing their mobility that fights involving fighters stagnate unless there is a teleporter involved. 3e had combats that zipped through too quickly, so monsters didn't get the chance to use all their powers. 4e has reduced the number of powers they have but also reduced the hit rate against them and improved their hit points. The damage that the monsters do remains pretty small too, relative to PC hit points. The end result means that I'm seeing combats which continue much longer, but which get a bit 'draggy' on both sides. if the PCs are all above bloodied and the bad guys are all bloodied, it is very likely that the PCs will beat them simply on attrition (people have similar chances to hit and do similar damage) but it takes... time... Cheers [/QUOTE]
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I think we're done with 4E
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