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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 4581317" data-attributes="member: 151">I find it interesting that people are describing 'the grind' with respect to 4e.&nbsp; My personal experience (which has only included 4e from 1st to 3rd level) runs exactly counter to that idea, since one of my biggst problems with 3e over the last 8 years is 'the grind'.&nbsp; In 3e, combats (particularly after 11th level) feel like they're decided by the third round.&nbsp; I don't doubt this can occur in 4e, as well...I just don't see it as a edition-specific problem.&nbsp; Over the last few years, I adapted a 'I'm declaring combat has ended' policy towards combats that clearly were going to waste our limited gaming time on a rote exercise.People talking about combats being much longer in 4e also runs counter to my experience, so far....but people also are using two different metrics for combat length.&nbsp; There's no question that, in terms of rounds, 4e combat takes longer.&nbsp; But in terms of actual real time, 3e combats come off as being much quicker, at least for my group.&nbsp; And more importantly, combat is much more of an equal-opportunity affair.&nbsp; Higher-level combats, in particular, would feature battles in which some characters simply didn't get to do much of interest.&nbsp; In some combats, certain characters were just irrelevant or merely window-dressing while the powerhouses brought their abilities to bear.&nbsp; 4e hasn't provided us with that feel.And one thing that I'm looking forward to is NOT having to reference the books.&nbsp; Or a website.&nbsp; Or Excel.&nbsp; We've been playing 3e for 8 years...and we STILL have to reference certain play-mechanics to make sure we do them correctly, such as grappling, dispelling, turning and so forth.&nbsp; For my group, 3e has provided us with years of gaming entertainment...but we're ready to move on.&nbsp; If 4e suddenly proves to be a disappointment (which after 6 sessions, it hasn't so far), then we'll shift laterally back to 3e or to True d20.I certainly don't fault anyone for tiring of any game system and moving to another...or for staying with one that's worked for a long time.&nbsp; Each group should make the choice that's best for them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 4581317, member: 151"] I find it interesting that people are describing 'the grind' with respect to 4e. My personal experience (which has only included 4e from 1st to 3rd level) runs exactly counter to that idea, since one of my biggst problems with 3e over the last 8 years is 'the grind'. In 3e, combats (particularly after 11th level) feel like they're decided by the third round. I don't doubt this can occur in 4e, as well...I just don't see it as a edition-specific problem. Over the last few years, I adapted a '[i]I'm declaring combat has ended[/i]' policy towards combats that clearly were going to waste our limited gaming time on a rote exercise. People talking about combats being much longer in 4e also runs counter to my experience, so far....but people also are using two different metrics for combat length. There's no question that, in terms of rounds, 4e combat takes longer. But in terms of actual real time, 3e combats come off as being much quicker, at least for my group. And more importantly, combat is much more of an equal-opportunity affair. Higher-level combats, in particular, would feature battles in which some characters simply didn't get to do much of interest. In some combats, certain characters were just irrelevant or merely window-dressing while the powerhouses brought their abilities to bear. 4e hasn't provided us with that feel. And one thing that I'm looking forward to is NOT having to reference the books. Or a website. Or Excel. We've been playing 3e for 8 years...and we STILL have to reference certain play-mechanics to make sure we do them correctly, such as grappling, dispelling, turning and so forth. For my group, 3e has provided us with years of gaming entertainment...but we're ready to move on. If 4e suddenly proves to be a disappointment (which after 6 sessions, it hasn't so far), then we'll shift laterally back to 3e or to True d20. I certainly don't fault anyone for tiring of any game system and moving to another...or for staying with one that's worked for a long time. Each group should make the choice that's best for them. [/QUOTE]

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