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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Samhaine" data-source="post: 1914548" data-attributes="member: 4873">A SuggestionI'm really enjoying this thread, and all posters involved have made good points.  The main point of contention still seems to be that there's a degree of difference between whether a character pursues a structured, law-bound society vs. an anarchic, individualistic state and whether that character's behavior towards this goal is generally orderly vs. unprededictable.What if the scale were tied together so that good/evil indicated which side of the split was the more important descriptor?The continuum of evil to good largely seems to be that an evil character puts his own desires and safety far above the desires and safety of others, while a good character is willing to sacrifice his own personal desires and safety if the good of the many is threatened.  So the good/evil axis can in a lot of ways be stripped to society/selfish with qualifiers.  Yes?  No?Assuming yes, what if the law/chaos axis was tied to the good/evil axis?  An evil character doesn't really care about society as long as his needs and desires are being met.For evil characters, Lawful and Chaotic describe behavior.  Lawful villains plot and plan and act purposefully and rationally towards a goal, and can be trusted to do what's in their best interests without the threat of physical force.  Chaotic villains indulge their desires as they feel them, and thus tend to be unpredictable as their actions follow their shifting needs.  Only by forcing them to feel an overwhelming interest in important desires (ie personal safety) can they be encouraged to follow someone else's goals when their own desires aren't exactly synched.Lawful evil characters tend to gravitate to and form strong societies, because they like the ability to control others with the organized behavior they're so good at.  Chaotic evil characters tend to gravitate to and form anarchic societies, because they'd rather no one weaker than them be able to tell them what to do.  Neither really cares what society is like if their personal goals, desires, and manner of acting are not impacted by the society.On the other hand, for good characters Law and Chaos describe political outlook.  Lawful heros tend to believe that most people benefit from a strong government and extensive rules and regulations; to keep them honest and give them a baseline of beneficial behavior from which to work.  Chaotic heroes tend to believe that too much government and regulation are bad things; people become too hung up on minutia rather than helping one another, and poorly designed laws can sometimes cause people to ignore all laws, even good ones.Lawful Good characters tend to engage in predictable behavior, because law-bound societies make forward-planning important, as well as avoiding breaking any of the laws.  Chaotic Good characters tend to be more unpredictable in their actions, because they don't like to feel constrained by another's rules but instead do what they feel is best at the very moment.  However, both sides are more interested in their politics than their method of operation; a Lawful Good character can act from moment to moment in the pursuit of stronger governments and a Chaotic Good character can stick to an organization and predictable actions if that is what is most in tune with more freedom for all.So, in summary, the Law/Chaos axis is defined by personal behavior for evil characters but by political outlook for good characters.  Lawful Good characters can be deeply conflicted by choices between an organized but unjust state and a benevolent anarchy.  Chaotic Good characters can be deeply conflicted by choices between a just but highly regulated state and a self-destructive anarchy that nonetheless allows great personal freedoms.  Meanwhile, evil characters have no real alignment to politics beyond what's in their personal best interest, and can work together to become even greater threats to the good characters.I'm not sure just yet how this would work more towards the neutral sides of each continuum.Thoughts?</blockquote>

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