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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JackGiantkiller" data-source="post: 1915490" data-attributes="member: 5080">An entertaining thread. I think you speak different languages from one another, but its still interesting.Fusangite...I agree that alignment is internally contradictory.  It seems self evident to me.swrushing ...I agree that alignment is descriptive of actions taken and choices made...but how do you decide what actions to take, if you do in fact wish to remain in a class that has an alignment restriction, if your actions are not clearly delineated as being in one camp or the other? or if they are clearly delineated in one camp or the other, but choosing one action in order to achieve a goal swings you into an unchosen alignment, thus causing you to lose class abilities that you the player did *not* in fact want to lose?  (I can't think why you'd want to be an ex-paladin...its not like you suddenly get feats to replace all the neat powers that are just...gone.)I think you folks need to decide what proscription means. In my experience, when a thing is forbidden, it has consequences that are intended to dissuade that action being taken. That is the meaning of proscription, IMHO. There are consequences for straying from alignment for many classes in the game. Thus, for those classes, alignment is proscriptive. Saying it isn't doesn't make it so. yes, the player ( and character) can still take the action. They will be punished for it by the loss of class abilities. they wil become less effective, and in many cases less fun to play while everybody else is still running full tilt. That's proscriptive.Fusangite...remember we *aren't* talking about the real world. In a fantasy, it is possible to have individual rights without the rule of law. In a fantasy,  people could just get along without laws forcing them to. they could accord each other mutual respect, understand each others basic, deifically granted rights (or even more fundamentally, rights that derive from the state of sentience regardless of the interference of deities...) and just generally groove on free love. None of these things can happen in the real world, i agree. But they can in fantasy.On the other hand...all of our founding fathers were Chaotic Good in ideology. Many of them were Chaotic Good in behavior. Ben Franklin was quite a rake, i understand.  Of course...they all had slaves, which sort of breaks the argument again...Oh well.</blockquote>

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