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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 1920333" data-attributes="member: 2268">Hmmm...and see, that's where the differences come from.Your position is that a player looks at the alignment of his character and plans his character's actions according to the alignment, especially if the class of the character in question carries an alignment restriction along with it. In your train of arguments, an alignment shift, and the following loss of character abilities is a negative event, because the player decided to play a paladin, and wants to stay a paladin, no matter how the game goes. That's what you call a "rational" player, and yes, they exist, and yes, for them, the alignment system probably is a proscriptive, penalizing rule system.My, and not just my, position is that a player looks at his character's personality, his history and motivations, and plans his actions according to them, and the alignment of his character is derived from these actions and the motivations behind them. If that player has chosen a class with an alignment restriction, and the character shifts alignment because of his actions and motivations, a shift in class takes place. For this kind of player, it's nothing negative, but simply a shift in focus. For a player like that, the alignment system is descriptive and consequential, but not penalizing. I just wouldn't call this kind of player less "rational". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It's a shame that you pulled out of the discussion, though...the point we finally reached is that, on a certain kind of player, or DM, the alignment system can have a proscriptive effect...but I dare say, not on all kinds of players. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />And as to your question about what player would knowingly "hobble" his character...well, my priest of law and order and goodness has probably fallen out of favour with his god, and all because he partook in a chain of events that aim at a good end. So...I, for one, would easily "hobble" my character if I thought it appropriate with my character's personality and motivations. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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