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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clark411" data-source="post: 1271691" data-attributes="member: 4768">Two things that strike me as odd- the first being the town guard wanting to throw every party member in jail because one of them (the Cleric of Pelor.. I'm assuming he's a party member) gave lip to the Cuthbertian guard.  I know of guilt by association, but I can still see the other players complaining about all being carted off to jail for the actions of one of their number.The second thing is that these players feel they are flailing about with no direction and, to top it all, have been implicated in a murder case by the second game because a person was found dead outside a temple.  That, being compounded with a wary town guard + a shifty member of their numbers getting into hostile mode with PCs for what might be an accurate accusation can easily equate to a bunch of players thinking "Man, not only do we have no clue as to what we're doing, but we're being set up."  It might be correct that they are, according to your plot, and it might be wrong for them to assume that it's you (The DM) setting them up when they should be looking at the case itself, but well- it does seem there may be a whole lot of problems being heaped on that is pushing them towards inevitable jail time.Of course, none of this may be true- as I'm just trying to channel the potentially grossly inaccurate views of your players.  The only real thing I can say in their defense, is that DMs regularly try to mask players from the truth- be it with mysteries or "Who's the guy at the end of the dungeon?" plots and other sorts of nebulous things like the reasons behind dead people appearing on their temple steps. This is no justification for them lacking in maturity and taking it out of game to say "Hey man, you suck" but it does say something for their frustrations.Perhaps your players are a bit too eager to throw around heavy words like "railroading," but that doesn't make them wrong necessarily if you are having the world try to keep them all together (possibly for nifty big events to play out before them).  Players don't always like being considered a party, especially in social situations where their opinions might differ... they almost always hate the idea of suffering the consequences of their mate's stubbornness.To say the least, in regards to their regular objections about how you're presenting your world, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they are simply testing how much they can get away with, and how much they can change their character's fates in out of game discussion and objections.  If this is the case, and it doesn't work for you, say so- a stonewalling DM who adamantly thinks the ownership of the gameworld and all its NPCs is solely his can be seen as quite antagonistic and stubborn to some roleplayers- and this will just heighten frustrations.  When it seems they cannot affect change with what they say or how they roll in game, and they cannot work out of game to explain what they're getting at... when none of it works- there is some validity in saying that no matter what they do, what you, the DM, wants to happen, will.  Choo choo.You mentioned your history of being a great DM... what about their histories beyond giving up Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil?  Are they used to DMs who pause, consider their points, and retcon happenings?  Have they had past opportunities to design minor "nobody" NPCs to suit the way they want things to go?  Finally and most importantly, do they have much baggage as players?  I know that in my social circle, the sins of one DM will be transposed on another DM at the slightest hint of their presence.  I've seen guys raise holy heck for character deaths when they've suffered high casualty rates in other games.</blockquote>

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