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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AaronOfBarbaria" data-source="post: 6871209" data-attributes="member: 6701872">...are you under the impression that I don't know these things?All of which I know. All of which I implicitly acknowledged in the post you quoted to tell me. And, most importantly, all of which don't actually make the bard a better "magic user" since none of them have to do with using magic which the bard may or may not actually have.And yet that 15th level wizard still has more spell slots than the bard, and can cast 7th level spells, making the wizard the better character in the category of magic use.Yeah, when making the gigantic assumption that the bard ever found a way to learn the fireball spell - meanwhile an invoker wizard got at least one guaranteed shot at a chance to learn roll for fireball just by leveling up."no slouch in the spell casting department" was not the argument you originally phrased, nor is the counter "a slouch in the spell casting department" the argument I have phrased. You said the bard was a better magic user than the wizard in parts of 2e, and I have demonstrated that as not being the case.And that "sucked" is entirely relative to other classes and doesn't mean that all of the other classes didn't also suck, just to a lesser degree - or to phrase that differently; it doesn't mean that not all of the classes are above the objective line of good enough established by the system and its intended design, just that of all the classes the bard is one of the least popular among players concerned with optimization in that edition.</blockquote>

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