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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 3565196" data-attributes="member: 3929">The CR system performs very well on average.There's simply no way a d20 random rolling system can come up with a way to make sure that every encounter is exactly equally balanced; the system cannot control if the ogre, who has a miserable reflex save, rolls two 18s when it meets the druid's entangle.That being said, there was an improvement between 3.0 and 3.5's CR system. Not suprisingly of course: it was an innovation for 3e, and 3.5 had three years of broad additional playtesting. So the CR 3 ogre was discovered as such.Naturally, conditions will change CRs: an ogre is easier to kill in the open than in a dungeon with fewer lines of sight; kobolds expecting adventurers will have better prepared ambushes and traps; orc barbarians using excellent group tactics will be harder to kill than if they free-for-alled it. But the CR system gives a good on average starting point for DMs so that when they alter the encounter one way or another, they know what to expect, on average.twofalls, your group meleed with a meatgrinder: they died when they allowed that to happen. Yes, the ogre is under CR'd in 3.0, but then that's one reason for the 3.5 revision. The 4-PC party works fine.</blockquote>