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Message: <blockquote data-quote="+5 Keyboard!" data-source="post: 3568954" data-attributes="member: 48586">I didn't read all of the posts so someone may have beaten me to making these points, but...First, the original poster decided to put to the test what has already been established for years as a broken system. That’s why there was a revision. Obviously an ogre was tougher than a CR 2 just by the demonstration the OP has given us. Now it’s a CR 3.However, even as a CR 2 (one higher than that average party level), one character is probably going to die. With a CR 3, probably half the party. And I’m talking about a competent group using good tactics.Second, the DM seems to have blindly trusted in some numbers to make everything work. The DM needs to have the pulse of his players and know when to pull punches or to swing harder. The rules are only a guide with the DM customizing things to his group.Third, the DM describes a group of characters that would have probably been beaten down by a pair of orcs. The class selection was weak and the tactics were poor. Just because the adventure as written had an ogre in a cave as the big bad guy, if you see that your players are probably going to be owned, change the ogre to something more manageable. The way I see it, it was most likely the damage output and the reach that did them in. So change what you can see on paper will kill each of the PCs in one hit to something more manageable. Make the ogre very old and not quite as strong as he used to be. Sure he’s still got a lot of hit points, but he’s gotten kind of weak in his old age and can’t deal nearly what he used to. Maybe he’s been relying on his reputation in his golden years to dissuade challengersOr maybe just ditch the ogre, instead it’s a very big and very tough orc fighter. No reach = good for your players. Far less damage output = excellent for your players.Fourth, yes some of the CRs in D&D are a bit off. But you as the DM should be able to get the feel of a broken CR and adjust on the fly. That’s what the game comes down to in its basic form.In my opinion, the system didn’t fail this group. The group failed to properly use the system.Just my take on it.</blockquote>

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